A revolution in thought

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Why are you still posting to me? Let others hear your rantings and ravings, but do not direct the posts to me. Thank you very much.

Again with telling others how to post. If you don't want to read what he's posts, put him on ignore. Control your own experience here, provides tools to do so.

[Kael]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I guess I feel sorry for him Kael because he can't believe that images are not interpreted through signals in the brain.

That is not difficult to understand, considering that there is absolutely no good reason to believe that is not what occurs, and that all (and I mean ALL) the currently accumulated evidence supports this explanation and no other.

He is dumbfounded and totally mystified (because he can't understand exactly what's going on, so he is in attack mode).

He is, but you are a bit off as to why.

I really feel some sort of obligation to help him out of his fog of confusion.

I doubt that. Certainly your responses to him do not indicate any feelings of obligation or desire to assist, just your own authoritative commands about how he should and shouldn't post, and what he should and shouldn't address in those posts.

But I don't want to actually engage in a conversation because he will keep talking about Daddy's mistakes.

That would only be a problem if "Daddy's mistakes" were actual problems with the work, i.e. things that would cause his thesis and proposed solution to "All Evil" to fail. You have asserted that this is not the case, that there are no such problems or mistakes on his part. Given that, you have absolutely no reason to not engage people who think they have found such a problem, and explain why they are wrong. So far, you have utterly failed to do so, and we passed the point many, many pages ago where even the most charitable viewer would think that this is for any reason other than that the things you are trying to defend are simply not true.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Do you realize how horrible people have been in here, to the point that I actually think they would burn me alive for the sake of 'truth and justice'?

I have experienced far, far, far worse "treatment" on the Internet. That's the price I willingly choose to pay for the benefits I get from interacting with people online. I choose who I interact with, and when, and where. I have left forums, I have people on ignore, I have ignored entire threads and subforums. I control my experiences because I can't control others' actions.

Nobody is forcing you to read these posts. Nobody is forcing you to log in to the . If you are compelled to keep visiting horrible people, that's your problem.

And no, nobody wants to burn you alive. You seem to have inherited your father's persecution complex.

That's not a simple accusation such as "you did this and I don't see your point of view (this is a normal response)," or "I feel this way and I'm hurt, so could we discuss this further?" (this is also a normal response). But this thread has been an all out attack on me, just like a mad dog attacks, and it's dangerous.

There is no danger here, all you have to do is remove yourself from the situation, or find a way to cope.

Barred from speaking to me is not barred from the thread. I only meant ignored LadyShea. I don't even put anyone on ignore. I don't even know the first thing how to use it, and I don't want to know.

You have then chosen to not use the tools available to control your own experience, and instead keep telling people to stop talking to you and/or telling them how to talk to you. Well, you're not the boss of them. You can choose to read their words, or not, but you do not get to choose what others say or how they say it.

Nobody is controlling what you say or how you say it either, BTW. This is how free speech and a free exchange of ideas works. Not everyone can handle it.

But to have such vengence against me would be hard for any human being to take, and I need to protect myself in some way.

Vengeance? Really? You think you are that important that anyone gives enough of a shit to seek vengeance? Half the people here are simply waiting for you to hugely, and hopefully hilariously, flame out.

There are lots of ways to protect yourself when you feel overwhelmed. The simplest and most effective is to walk away. What's preventing you from doing so? I suspect you thrive on all this, that it feeds your narcissistic and histrionic persecution complex.

Afterall, self-preservation is the first law of nature, and I'm just following orders.

How? What are you doing here that you feel is self preservative? You aren't even making sense.

That might be a theory LadyShea, but to actually ignore the negative messages given by others, especially of a child as young as 5, is not fair and not even do-able in the real world.

Who said ignore negative messages? I am teaching my child that how he processes and responds to negative messages, and copes with negative feelings brought on by them, is entirely within his control. I am empowering him to deal with the world.

I hope you give your son positive messages, because he will get a lot of negative ones, especially if you put him into public school.

If you had spent even a little bit of time getting to know people here, you would know how ridiculous it is to make this statement to me.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Kael

That is not difficult to understand, considering that there is absolutely no good reason to believe that is not what occurs, and that all (and I mean ALL) the currently accumulated evidence supports this explanation and no other.

But there is a reason why he came to this conclusions and it has everything to do with the ability of the brain to project onto undeniable substance, a value, that doesn't exist in reality but appears to. The brain couldn't do this if the eyes were a sense organ.

He is dumbfounded and totally mystified (because he can't understand exactly what's going on, so he is in attack mode).

Originally Posted by Kael

He is, but you are a bit off as to why.

I'm not off as to why. I started this chapter by explaining why, but no one cares. It may be hard to prove empirically, but I believe there is evidence that supports his claims and will eventually prove that he was right all along. Lone Ranger won't even consider the possibility that there is another explanation. So there is no place for me to go from here. And BTW, that doesn't give davidm the right to be so nasty. I understand his skepticism, but this has gone too far.

I really feel some sort of obligation to help him out of his fog of confusion.

Originally Posted by Kael

I doubt that. Certainly your responses to him do not indicate any feelings of obligation or desire to assist, just your own authoritative commands about how he should and shouldn't post, and what he should and shouldn't address in those posts.

Kael, every single one of his posts to me were derogatory, cold, vindictive, and vitriolic. He is only one of many people attacking me from every angle. It's not easy to take this abuse, even though I really thought I might get some traction in this forum. Boy was I wrong.

But I don't want to actually engage in a conversation because he will keep talking about Daddy's mistakes.

Originally Posted by Kael

That would only be a problem if "Daddy's mistakes" were actual problems with the work, i.e. things that would cause his thesis and proposed solution to "All Evil" to fail. You have asserted that this is not the case, that there are no such problems or mistakes on his part. Given that, you have absolutely no reason to not engage people who think they have found such a problem, and explain why they are wrong. So far, you have utterly failed to do so, and we passed the point many, many pages ago where even the most charitable viewer would think that this is for any reason other than that the things you are trying to defend are simply not true.

His knowledge as to why man's will is not free is absolutely undeniable. His understanding as to the role of conscience is absolutely undeniable. And the two-sided equation is absolutely undeniable. Therefore, this new world is not coming from his imagination. It is an attainable goal if only he can reach people who will not tell me he is a crackpot, and will investigate further. Oddly enough, this closed mindedness is preventing the very thing we all want.

[peacegirl]

[quote=LadyShea;939223][quote=peacegirl;939192]

Do you realize how horrible people have been in here, to the point that I actually think they would burn me alive for the sake of 'truth and justice'?

Originally Posted by LadyShea

I have experienced far, far, far worse "treatment" on the Internet. That's the price I willingly choose to pay for the benefits I get from interacting with people online. I choose who I interact with, and when, and where. I have left forums, I have people on ignore, I have ignored entire threads and subforums. I control my experiences because I can't control others' actions.

Nobody is forcing you to read these posts. Nobody is forcing you to log in to the . If you are compelled to keep visiting horrible people, that's your problem.

I'm torn because I want people to be excited over this knowledge, but I can't make headway with ff or other forums of a like nature, not because Lessans was wrong, but because we can't get past Chapter Four.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

And no, nobody wants to burn you alive. You seem to have inherited your father's persecution complex.

No LadyShea, he didn't have a complex, persecution or otherwise. He was a very stable person. Not overconfident, but definitely sure of himself in a humble way. It is tough for me because I was the one left with the book. I am indebted to this knowledge and I will continue to pass it along, whether I achieve this in my lifetime or not.

That's not a simple accusation such as "you did this and I don't see your point of view (this is a normal response)," or "I feel this way and I'm hurt, so could we discuss this further?" (this is also a normal response). But this thread has been an all out attack on me, just like a mad dog attacks, and it's dangerous.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

There is no danger here, all you have to do is remove yourself from the situation, or find a way to cope.

I'm not being a drama queen. How else can I express the frustration I feel when people have twisted, trashed, butchered, and misunderstood this knowledge. It's dangerous because this knowledge is being denied its rightful place, so that it can be used for our betterment. There is a lot at stake because of the implications.

Barred from speaking to me is not barred from the thread. I only meant ignored LadyShea. I don't even put anyone on ignore. I don't even know the first thing how to use it, and I don't want to know.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

You have then chosen to not use the tools available to control your own experience, and instead keep telling people to stop talking to you and/or telling them how to talk to you. Well, you're not the boss of them. You can choose to read their words, or not, but you do not get to choose what others say or how they say it.

You're absolutely right.

Originally Posted by Ladyshea

Nobody is controlling what you say or how you say it either, BTW. This is how free speech and a free exchange of ideas works. Not everyone can handle it.

True. Maybe you can teach me how to use the ignore button. I really hate to do this but I am going to have to if and when I come to ff. I have spent hours and hours on this thread to the complete neglect of my other responsibilities.

But to have such vengence against me would be hard for any human being to take, and I need to protect myself in some way.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Vengeance? Really? You think you are that important that anyone gives enough of a shit to seek vengeance? Half the people here are simply waiting for you to hugely, and hopefully hilariously, flame out.

My flame will keep on flickering even if I am not flickering here anymore. I was ready to flame out until the questions started again. I guess I feel compelled to answer them, which is probably the worst thing I could do.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

There are lots of ways to protect yourself when you feel overwhelmed. The simplest and most effective is to walk away. What's preventing you from doing so? I suspect you thrive on all this, that it feeds your narcissistic and histrionic persecution complex.

Your diagnosis of me is so off the mark, I don't know how to respond. I grew up with this book. All I wanted to do is share it. When I was finished the last book and waiting for the proof, I was thinking a different forum might bring a more open minded group of people. But instead all I get is more of the same, and get laughed at for making this gargantuan effort on behalf of this important discovery.

Afterall, self-preservation is the first law of nature, and I'm just following orders.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

How? What are you doing here that you feel is self preservative? You aren't even making sense.

All of this name calling is a threat to my preservation. I don't want to get high blood pressure, or sick because of this thread, and I don't feel great when I get offline. I have an illness: chronic fatigue syndrome. Have you heard of it? I am not indefatigable, and I am using a lot of my energy reserve in here with no encouraging responses to balance things out. Zilch.

That might be a theory LadyShea, but to actually ignore the negative messages given by others, especially of a child as young as 5, is not fair and not even do-able in the real world.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Who said ignore negative messages? I am teaching my child that how he processes and responds to negative messages, and copes with negative feelings brought on by them, is entirely within his control. I am empowering him to deal with the world.

I agree with that to a point. In fact, I recently had a conversation with my daughter-in-law about this very thing. She said exactly what you are saying. But I believe that a child can still become emotionally empowered without being thrown in the lion's den (being put in a situation where he has to deal with bullies on an everyday basis, for example) because this does leave a scar. It might make him thick skinned, but the scar never goes away completely. I don't care how strong a child is, when you are bullied everyday, it's going to have a negative impact, even if you develop coping skills along the way. So if I had a choice between sending my child to a peaceful classroom, or to a classroom where he will learn how to handle negative messages, I would choose the peaceful, supportive, nurturing atmosphere, hands down. A child has all the time in the world to get strong, but his childhood should be a happy experience.

I hope you give your son positive messages, because he will get a lot of negative ones, especially if you put him into public school.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

If you had spent even a little bit of time getting to know people here, you would know how ridiculous it is to make this statement to me.

My response had nothing to do with you personally. I only said "I hope you give your son positive messages (I didn't imply that you don't give him positive messages. Maybe you took it that way) because children have so much to deal with these days, and need as much positive messages as possible. I'm sure you are a wonderful mother based on the few conversations we have had.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

She stated it to erimir, IIRC, and on another forum's thread I read she has a degree.

Now I'm even more curious what major the degree was in and from what school she got it, I would ask her but I don't think she's talking to me.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

But there is a reason why he came to this conclusions and it has everything to do with the ability of the brain to project onto undeniable substance, a value, that doesn't exist in reality but appears to. The brain couldn't do this if the eyes were a sense organ.
.

Actually there is evidence that people can look at something and report seeing something different than what is actually in front of them. I have encountered this phenomenom before but have not given it quite this explination. If a person looks at a familiar item the mind may have an image that is not exactly like the object being looked at. A quick quiz, answer this and be sure of your answer, post if you like but some may be embaresed.

On the public highways of North America, - 'What color is a Yield Sign?'

[The Editor]

Basically, Lessans has been proven wrong, she has been proven a liar, a hypocrite, and a coward, so this thread is really just "for the Lolz" now.

--Ed.

[LadyShea]

it has everything to do with the ability of the brain to project onto undeniable substance, a value, that doesn't exist in reality but appears to. The brain couldn't do this if the eyes were a sense organ.

If the brain is doing the interpreting of the signals to form the image, it makes perfect sense that individuals perceive all kinds of things, and apply all manner of values to those images, that may or may not be an accurate reflection of reality. There is absolutely no need for eyes to be other than a sense organ to posit this.

[Doctor X]

Originally Posted by thedoc

Actually there is evidence that people can look at something and report seeing something different than what is actually in front of them. I have encountered this phenomenom before but have not given it quite this explination. If a person looks at a familiar item the mind may have an image that is not exactly like the object being looked at. A quick quiz, answer this and be sure of your answer, post if you like but some may be embaresed.

On the public highways of North America, - 'What color is a Yield Sign?'

She still has not read TLR post.

She is a waste of time.

--J.D.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Doctor X

She still has not read TLR post.

She is a waste of time.

--J.D.

Was it you or the 'Lone Ranger' who said they were still here for the benifit of others who may be interested in the truth, That is still a worthy goal, in spite of peacegirls efforts.

[Doctor X]

We may have both said that, but while, "my patience is formidable, it is not infinite."

Granted, I just got told to "read something" on human sacrifice in the Bible--a bunch of apology websites and a letter to an editor from 19fucking9--so I am a bit cranky.

Methinks I will take it out on TLR by telling him he should "read something" on evolution and post links to Answers in Genesis

--J.D.

[Charmion]

Originally Posted by Doctor X

We may have both said that, but while, "my patience is formidable, it is not infinite."

Granted, I just got told to "read something" on human sacrifice in the Bible--a bunch of apology websites and a letter to an editor from 19fucking9--so I am a bit cranky.

Methinks I will take it out on TLR by telling him he should "read something" on evolution and post links to Answers in Genesis

--J.D.

A letter from 1909 can be just as relevant as one that was written yesterday. I guess I missed your thread about human sacrifice. I'll take time to read it.

If you liked that letter, you'll really like the one that I read in the New York Times, "Plea for the English Sparrow." It's even older (1892).

PLEA FOR THE ENGLISH SPARROW. - WHAT A PEESON SAYS WHO HAS MADE A PET OF HIM. - View Article - NYTimes.com

[Kael]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

His knowledge as to why man's will is not free is absolutely undeniable. His understanding as to the role of conscience is absolutely undeniable. And the two-sided equation is absolutely undeniable.

You do not understand what that means. Laying aside the debate over whether anything even can be "absolutely undeniable," your father's claims do not even begin to meet the most generous criteria I can think of. It is difficult, if not impossible, to find any point in his work that is not the functional opposite of "absolutely undeniable."

That YOU have accepted something as undeniable does not make it so. That the "undeniable" principles in question are completely unsupported and indeed actually contradicted by extant data hardly helps matters. You are either actually dense or have simply chosen to be because you cannot come to grips with the possibility that your dad was wrong, that his conjectures come to nothing, and that his life's work, and yours, will NOT stop all the evil in the world, as you and he so grandly claim.

[Doctor X]

Originally Posted by Charmion

A letter from 1909 can be just as relevant. . . .

Save it is not in a discipline that has, in one hundred fucking years, increased its understanding of archaeology, texts, traditions, languages, et cetera, and, especially, is not as willing to lie about fairy tales as they did then in the hope to preserve them.

--J.D.

[Angakuk]

I believe I have figured out what this thread is about. It is really all a game and it ought to be in the Arcade. Actually, it is two games.

The first game is called "Quest for Illumination". The goal of this game is to be the poster (there can be only one*) who gets peacegirl to quit posting in this thread by convincing her that Lessans' work is entirely without merit. The weapons which are available for penetrating peacegirl's "Shield of Invincible Ignorance" include; rational argument, empirical evidence, polite discourse, compassion and infinite patience. Penetrating the shield will allow the light of pure reason to shine upon peacegirl and this illumination will deliver her from the darkness of her ignorance and delusion.

The second game is called "Troll Destroyer - The Final Lessan". The object of this game is to be the poster (there can be only one*) who so angers and/or humiliates peacegirl that she abandons the field of battle and quits posting in this thread. The weapons which are available for peacegirl's complete and utter eradication include; rational argument, empirical evidence, vulgar language, insult, derision, sarcasm and mockery. Victory is acheived when peacegirl, flames spurting out of her ears, stalks off in a high dudgeon and never returns.

Here is where things get really cool. The two games "Quest for Illumination" and "Troll Destroyer - The Final Lessan" are really just two parts of a larger meta-game, "The Illuminators vs The Destroyers - Battle for Victory". In this game the Illuminators and the Destroyers form two opposing teams that share a common goal - the end of "Team Lessans" (aka "The Indefatigables"). Although they share a common goal they are, nevertheless, engaged in a dire conflict over how this goal is to be achieved. The Illuminators want to save and redeem the Indefatigables and the Destroyers want to crush them, brutally, horribly and utterly.

"Battle for Victory" has some unusual features. The first such feature is that players may, at anytime and however often they like, switch teams. There are, with one exception, no penalties attached to changing sides. The sole exception to this rule is that no player, at anytime or for any reason, may join the Indefatigables. The penalty for such an heinous act of betrayal is immediate banishment to The Cloaca. The term of incarceration will be set by a vote of the administrators. In the event of a tie vote, one of the administrators must eat the other one and then immediately take a second vote.

A second unusual feature is that, though there are in reality three teams in play (i.e, The Illuminators, The Destroyers & The Indefatigables) one team can never be allowed to win. This feature effectively transforms the meta-game, "The Illuminators vs The Destroyers - Battle for Victory", into the meta-meta-game, "The World vs Lessans - It Isn't Paranoia Anymore". If, in playing "The World vs Lessans - It Isn't Paranoia Anymore", the Indefatigables were (for some wholly unaccountable and unimaginable reason) to win, the Internets would implode and the world, as we know it, would come to sudden and irrevocable end. This this will happen even if it is not December 21, 2012.

As you can see, playing this game is undeniably the most important thing that you will ever do. The fate of the world depends upon how well you play!

* Although there can be only one winner, all competitors will recieve a very nice ribbon and a Certificate of Participation, suitable for framing.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by davidm

TRANSLATION: "I haven't a fucking clue how to explain my father's idiot rantings, particularly his moronic 'astute observation' that you would see the sun eight minutes before you saw your neighbor. Hence I will adopt the prima donna pose of aggrieved party who won't deign to answer people who pose questions that are impossible for me to answer."

Got it!

Good. Until you learn how to talk in a respectful way, there will be no communication between us.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Goliath

Bitch, you wouldn't know what to do with half of a brain. What possible use could you have for mine?

So far you've called me a cunt and a bitch. I think that's enough for one day, dont' you? I have to learn how to use the ignore button for my own protection.

[thedoc]

What kind of 'controller' do I need to play? My grandkids have some PS-2s around?

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

So far you've called me a cunt and a bitch. I think that's enough for one day, dont' you? I have to learn how to use the ignore button for my own protection.

Click on his User Name and choose to ignore

[The Editor]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Until you learn how to talk in a respectful way, . . .

A skill of which you have no familiarity. . . .

--Ed.

[The Editor]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I have to learn how to use the ignore button for my own protection.

Yes, you might actually learn something else.

Best to protect your ignorance. Perhaps you should just leave and cease trying to sell lies as you have promised to do too many times? Or were you just disappointed that your amateur dramatics generated nothing more than the encouragement that you should take heed to prevent the door from impacting upon your posterior?

--Ed.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

If the brain is doing the interpreting of the signals to form the image, it makes perfect sense that individuals perceive all kinds of things, and apply all manner of values to those images, that may or may not be an accurate reflection of reality. There is absolutely no need for eyes to be other than a sense organ to posit this.

If the brain was interpreting the signals, then the value being processed would be a definite part of reality. That's why there is a demarcation between those considered ugly, and those considered beautiful. And don't we see this difference with our very eyes? Of course we do, but the conditioning has already taken place. No one would think of the witch of the west as being beautiful. This all has to do with how the brain is able to photograph a picture and an inflection, and then project that value onto undeniable substance. If the brain was interpreting signals from the light and turning them into images, this phenomenon would be non-existent, but it isn't.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I guess I feel sorry for him Kael because he can't believe that images are not interpreted through signals in the brain.

He is dumbfounded and totally mystified (because he can't understand exactly what's going on, so he is in attack mode).

Actually, I am dumfounded and mystified. I am dumfounded and mystified how anyone can be as stupid as you and your father are and function from day to day.

I really feel some sort of obligation to help him out of his fog of confusion.

Says the person who thinks that if God turned on the sun at noon, we would see it instantly, but not see our neighbor for eight minutes.

But I don't want to actually engage in a conversation because he will keep talking about Daddy's mistakes.

Exactly! Now you've got it! I will keep pointing out his mistakes. And that's what you can't have.

Say, peacegirl, you don't have to talk to me. The questions is general. Anyone can ask it. If God turned on the sun at noon, why does Lessans think that people on earth would see the sun immediately, but not see thel light reflected off their neighbors until eight minutes later? Why, peacegirl, do you and he think that? Why?

See? It's a simple question that you must know the answer to you. You can answer it without addressing me at all.

[davidm]

Here's a thought. Since peacegirl can't answer the question about the sun, she has decided to say that she won't talk to me. So someone else ask the question. Let's see if she can answer it then.