What Is Harassment?

[Sweetie]

1. To irritate or torment persistently.
2. To wear out; exhaust.
3. To impede and exhaust (an enemy) by repeated attacks or raids.


Synonyms: harass, harry, hound, badger, pester, plague
These verbs mean to trouble persistently or incessantly. Harass and harry imply systematic persecution by besieging with repeated annoyances, threats, or demands: The landlord harassed tenants who were behind in their rent. A rude customer had harried the storekeeper. Hound suggests unrelenting pursuit to gain a desired end: Reporters hounded the celebrity for an interview. To badger is to nag or tease persistently: The child badgered his parents for a new bicycle. To pester is to inflict a succession of petty annoyances: “How she would have pursued and pestered me with questions and surmises” (Charlotte Brontë). Plague refers to a problem likened to an epidemic disease: “As I have no estate, I am plagued with no tenants or stewards” (Henry Fielding).



1: a feeling of intense annoyance caused by being tormented; "so great was his harassment that he wanted to destroy his tormentors" 2: the act of tormenting by continued persistent attacks and criticism



I think what I am complaining about fits all of these definitions.

[Crumb]

I agree, but I think to have a productive conversation we would need to try and outline a specific identifiable behavior or set of behaviors that would amount to harassment on a internet forum. I don't think that is an easy task.

[alphamale]

Originally Posted by Crumb

try and

Please - it's try to. "Try and" drives me up the wall.

[Sweetie]

Originally Posted by alphamale

Please - it's try to. "Try and" drives me up the wall.

No, you di'int!



Ok, well this is easy. How about we start with there has to be an element of "deliberate" "intended" and/or "premeditation" to the type of harassment we have issues with.

This is why godfry doesn't bother me and Adora does. Godfry has only been a problem in some certain specific instances which I found ultimately negligible. I think godfry sometimes even responds out of hurt. I think he speaks without recognizing the full impact, but I think Adora recognizes too well, the game, the playa, all dat.

[MooseIBe]

Quite frankly I am starting to find these constant bloody posts about what harrassment is harrassment.

PUT HER ON IGNORE!!!!

[Dingfod]

Originally Posted by MooseIBe

Quite frankly I am starting to find these constant bloody posts about what harrassment is harrassment.

PUT HER ON IGNORE!!!!

What she said. Sweetie, you have complete control of the situation, put Adora on Ignore. I know it works, I have a couple of people on Ignore right now, people I can't respond to without vehement. I'm kind of enjoying the peace it gives me to not respond to them... or participate in threads they start.

[Crumb]

Originally Posted by alphamale

Please - it's try to. "Try and" drives me up the wall.

I'll try and get it write in teh future.

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally Posted by MooseIBe

Quite frankly I am starting to find these constant bloody posts about what harrassment is harrassment.

You got that right.

[maddog]

Originally Posted by MooseIBe

Quite frankly I am starting to find these constant bloody posts about what harrassment is harrassment.

PUT HER ON IGNORE!!!!

Please, Moose, Warren,

I am really sorry to interrupt. Now I'm going to sound like a pompous ass, and I really apologize for that, but, as gently as possible, here goes:

This new thread is an attempt to do something constructive about a perceived board problem. This is a move away from general complaints to specific discussion about an attempt to frame a workable policy. It may or may not be possible to compose one; it may or may not be ultimately a good idea to implement it.

This is a new thread, with a clearly defined topic, in the appropriate forum. It hasn't had time to become "constant bloody posts" about what harassment is. There aren't that many posts in the thread, yet, and two of them are off topic. If you aren't interested in posts about "what is harassment?" then I don't understand why you would purposely click on the thread title to read it. That measure of "harassment" is self-inflicted.

I'd like to give the thread a chance to move into new territory; simply telling Sweetie to put Adora on "ignore" doesn't advance the purpose of this thread.

I'd like to ask if we can please focus on that purpose. Thanks for your understanding.

#568

[MooseIBe]

Look Maddog, look down this forum and tell me how many topics there are in it already on the subject of Sweetie and Adora. Have you read them? Cos as far as I am aware, we're just going over old ground. The admins have given their take already, and continuing to post the same stuff again and again is trolling in my book.

[MooseIBe]

Would you like to tell me what can be said in this thread that won't have already been said in these two:

http://www.freethought-forum.com/for...ead.php?t=4436

http://www.freethought-forum.com/for...ead.php?t=4435

cheers.

[Crumb]

Well if you don't care to find out Moosie, you can ignore this thread.

ETA: Shit, I done gone and did it again. This is my VM post, and I have gone and wasted it.

[MooseIBe]

And the next and the next one that gets posted till Sweetie gets whatever it is she wants? .

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally Posted by MooseIBe

The admins have given their take already, and continuing to post the same stuff again and again is trolling in my book.

Not only that but yet another excuse for the OP to lie about other members, and ascribe to them unsavory motives that only exist in the OP's head. What the OP does here is scurrilous and if anyone deserves reprimanding it's the OP.

[Dingfod]

Originally Posted by maddog

I'd like to ask if we can please focus on that purpose. Thanks for your understanding.

I don't want to be insensitive or anything, but fuck no. The answer is as simple as what Moosey suggested. If Sweetie wanted to discuss what the definition of harassment on a message board was there are better sub-fora for that to occur than here, maybe Philosophy, Religion, Morality. But, you got right ahead and discuss it here, you can also put us petty peons on ignore. Sorry for being blunt.

[viscousmemories]

Sweetie, your complaint about Adora's behavior is noted. I think it's unfortunate that you find her presence here intolerable and that you are unwilling or unable to use the ignore features we have provided, but at present that is your only option.

As I said here (bold added):

Originally Posted by vm

As far as I'm concerned that's the final word on the issue unless you can provide some new insight or information as to why we should change our policy. Of course you're free to try to convince others that it's a good idea, but there won't be any change in the policy here unless you convince livius and myself.
<snip>
The best way to get us to seriously consider your suggestion would be to come up with a draft of the new rule you want to see implemented here and post it somewhere in Forum Admin, in your old thread or in a new one.

In other words if you're interested in discussing our policy, then you will have to be more specific about what it is you want from us. If you are just interested in a general discussion of what harassment is, then Forum Administration is not the appropriate place for this thread.

I won't be discussing this or any other issues with you in Albert Cipriani's Goodbye thread, so if you have any recommendations for rule or policy changes I suggest you make them here.

[Crumb]

Originally Posted by Warren

If Sweetie wanted to discuss what the definition of harassment on a message board was there are better sub-fora for that to occur than here, maybe Philosophy, Religion, Morality.

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

If you are just interested in a general discussion of what harassment is, then Forum Administration is not the appropriate place for this thread.

She posted this thread here at the repeated suggestion of myself and others. It was to get it out of that other thread and to phrase the issue in a clearer and more positive light. There is no need for anyone to jump on Sweetie for the existence of this thread.

I for one do not think that this is a non issue. I think that creating a hostile environment for new users is a detriment to FF.

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by Crumb

She posted this thread here at the repeated suggestion of myself and others. It was to get it out of that other thread and to phrase the issue in a clearer and more positive light. There is no need for anyone to jump on Sweetie for the existence of this thread.

I for one do not think that this is a non issue. I think that creating a hostile environment for new users is a detriment to FF.

I agree that there's no need for anyone to jump on Sweetie and I haven't said that I thought this is a non-issue. What I said is that there is nothing in her OP that resembles a suggestion for a rule or policy change. All I see is a definition of harassment, followed by Sweetie saying "I think what I am complaining about fits all of these definitions." In other words, this appears to be yet another thread wherein Sweetie intends to complain that Adora has harassed her. What does that have to do with Forum Administration?

[MooseIBe]

Crumb, in your last sentence I actually do agree with you; it's just that I think this thread will be a rehash of all the others on the same subject, ie Sweetie saying that people are nasty to her and constantly complaining about Adora's behaviour towards her. Doing that is not going to make any difference or advance forum policy at all.

Look at it this way: if Sweetie just DID put Adora on ignore, wouldn't there be less hostility for newbies to witness?

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally Posted by Crumb

I think that creating a hostile environment for new users is a detriment to FF.

All new users are without fail effusively welcomed by both livius and vm, and a host of other members. In the one celebrated instance of a new user quitting the forum based on abuse by another member, as I recall, the new user ignored scores of supportive posts in order to concentrate on the abuse.

There is no hostile environment here. On the other hand posts that, for example, suggest a member was drunk or high on drugs in a picture that they uploaded and that another member was engaging in "benign rape" by viewing it are far more offensive than aggressive disagreement or even sophomoric name calling.

[Crumb]

Originally Posted by MooseIBe

it's just that I think this thread will be a rehash of all the others on the same subject

But can we at least give it a chance not to be, or should we complain about what it will "inevitably" become. I fear your prophesies are self fulfilling.

[godfry n. glad]

I, for one, think this whole discussion is out of order.

Sweetie wants a "harrassment rule". It's already been acknowledged that constructing such would be next to impossible, given the constraints of the philosophy underlying the board itself.

There already exist rules for behavior beyond the community pale, and there have been no violations of any by either party upon which this controversy is founded. So far as I know, there have been no death threats or suggestions of violence upon any participant in this forum. As such, all discussions have been within the bounds allowable by the forum. Not only that, but the poster seeking the change in the o'erarching standards governing participation at this forum has repeatedly failed to take advantage of the measures provided with the forum to filter out other participants they deem offensive or with whom they wish not to converse.

I see no reasons to change any of the rules of this forum to benefit a poster who has failed to use what is available. If that poster deems it more important to defend their "honor", then they must live with the consequences of engaging someone who is repugnant to their sensibilities.

I see no reason to penalize the entire membership of the board because one poster cannot deal maturely with another and refuses to take already available remedies.

Sweetie...

As we go through this life, there will be people we don't like and who we'd rather not deal with. Conversely, there will be those who don't like us and would rather not have to deal with us. Almost everybody I've ever known, fits into both categories.

We all have shitlists. I know I do. Probably anybody who has been here any length of time knows I do. I know that others do. I even know I'm on a few shitlists. Godless Dave, for example, I'm fairly sure has me on "ignore". On this list, I've had two people on ignore - justaman and alphamale. I've taken both off because I'd rather engage than not, so I now have none on "ignore". I like it this way. I think people should be able to say what they wish (even alphamale, as misguided as he can be). But they'll have to listen to what others say about what they say. That's the name of the game.

So, get used to it. If you don't like how any other poster posts or responds, put them on "ignore". That is your remedy. Use it or get used to the static.

I move that this recommendation for a "harrassment rule" be tabled indefinitely.

[Crumb]

I did't see this thread as an Adora vs. Sweetie rehash. Though now I fear that will come to pass.

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by Crumb

I for one do not think that this is a non issue. I think that creating a hostile environment for new users is a detriment to FF.

I would tend to agree, and as I've said before, I'm definitely interested in ideas for countering hostility especially towards new posters.

I don't think harassment is a useful model, however, because as the definition in the OP notes, it requires consistent, intentional abuse directed towards a person over a period of time. That's not a standard that can apply to new members getting grilled their first time out of the Welcome forum, it seems to me. Nor does it address the general issue of hair-trigger threads which range far and wide in topic and membership.

[Dingfod]

Originally Posted by Crumb

I did't see this thread as an Adora vs. Sweetie rehash. Though now I fear that will come to pass.

You don't think so? I do.

Originally Posted by Sweetie

I think what I am complaining about fits all of these definitions.