My son is being taught creationism in science class!

[BracesForImpact]

I would like a little advice on how to proceed from those more experienced with these issues than I.

My son is an inmate at Logansport Juvenile Correctional Facility Treatment Unit in Logansport, IN. He is 16 years old. Without getting into too much background information, I'll just say that while under my ex-wife's care, my son was physically, emotionally, and sexually abused. I have custody of him now, and I am left picking up the pieces. Some of this has unfortunately led to him being incarcerated at the above named facility while he learns to be responsible for his actions. He is due to be out sometime early this September. We are looking forward to becoming a united father and son once again.

Today when I spoke to my son on the phone, he began telling me how he learned in science class today that evolution was untrue. He began explaining very specific reasonings why evolution was wrong, explaining a water canopy that once surrounded the earth that fell to begin the great flood. He explained to me how the second law of thermodynamics proves evolution is impossible. (Actually what he said was the second law of aerodynamics, but being all too familiar with this horrid argument, I knew what he meant.) He continued by saying something about ankles and shins and knees and how they couldn't have just formed, but need to work together - I think this was a really lousy shot at irreducible complexity. Apparently these ideas were introduced to the class through a series of videos.

I attempted a bit of damage control explaining how these arguments were fallacious, but there simply isn't time to do such a thing during a fifteen minute phone call. I asked my son once again if these ideas were really introduced to him within science class and he said that they were. At this point I asked to speak to his counselor who was present with him in the room.

I spoke with his counselor who basically told me she had no idea what was taking place in the science class room. Understandable I suppose. I asked for and received the educational directors phone number. I also received a phone number to set up a home inspection. The state has to come inspect your home before they will release their prisoner into your custody to make sure it's a safe environment.

I received this call at work, and already I was getting angry. I know my son though, including his ability to exaggerate, so I was taking what he said with a grain of salt. Lacking the time to deal with the issue immediately, I quickly called my significant other, explained the situation and asked her to call the educational director. I asked her to write down everything he said to the best of her ability, to be non-confrontational, and to gather up as much information as she could.

Boy was I surprised. I thought perhaps they had a "special presentation" that was voluntary, and that it was passed off as science. Alas, no such luck.

By speaking with my SO and looking at her notes this is what I have found out. The science classroom is teaching "both sides of the issue". They are teaching evolution out of a textbook, and creationism with the videos. It is a compulsory course. When my SO inquired what the series of videos was called, the educational director didn't know. He only knew that they were given to the science teacher by the facility chaplain. When my SO asked whether testing was involved on either "subject" the educational director again didn't know the answer. The educational director told my SO that since he felt he couldn't "teach either as gospel" that he was teaching both due to legal ramifications. The fact that a science teacher is showing this drivel in the classroom, and the educational director doesn't even seem to know the specifics of his own science curriculum is very worrisome to me. He did mention that he had already spoken to his superintendent about the matter, although he didn't mention what the result of that conversation was.

My son, whom is already far behind in his education (as I am sure many others of those disadvantaged children are) does not need to have science misrepresented to him, and he and all those other children deserve better. These kids already have the short end of the stick, one of the truly few boons to being incarcerated is that you can use the time to educate yourself for free. What good is that if the education is full of myth and superstition?

I have the phone number of the superintendent, and I was told I could give her a call. I'd like some advice on how to handle this before I do. I have already called the ACLU and I am waiting for a callback from them. I also want to find out what these videos are. Gawd forbid they're Dr. Dino videos or I might just lose it!

Something else bothers me in that my son might receive retributive action in the facility or not be allowed to come home if I push this issue. Perhaps not wanting to deal with me, they'll send him home that much faster. In any case, I feel pretty powerless and damn pissy at the moment.

Any advice? Help me out here folks!

[LadyShea]

I would wait for a response from the ACLU. Seems like a blatant violation to me.

[godfry n. glad]

1. I'm assuming that this facility in which he has been located is public. Is that true? Perhaps a County or State facility?

2. If so, register your complaint with the ACLU (which I see you've done already).

3. Call the superintendent of the facility and place a formal complain about the in-facility school willfully violating federal and state standards regarding the teaching of religion in public facilities. Demand that it end immediately. Request it in writing.

4. If there is any reactionary actions taken to delay or limit your son's return to his home, it can be considered to be retaliatory and and additional violation upon there part. Demand that they place any such changes in writing to you. If they do so, immediately contact the local federal prosecutors office and advise them of the actions taken against you and your child's civil rights.

5. Recontact the ACLU and advice them that the public facility has reacted with an additional violation of you and your child's civil rights. Provide any written communications which uphold your complaints.

Don't go soft. Get rid of the offensive violations of civil liberties immediately. Only if they offer to suspend the teacher teaching "creation science" or "intelligent design" immediately should you consider withdrawing legal complaints.

That's what I'd do...but I'm a bit on the incindiary side on these issues.

[BracesForImpact]

A few have advised me to seek out the National Center for Science Education and the Freedom From Religion Foundation as well. I may well do that depending on how I feel while speaking to the Superintendent tomorrow.

[ZEZOZE]

here's my advice...

wait until your son is out of prison before you make a big fuss. it might give the wrong impression as to where your priorities are while he is in there. i'm sure he's also learning tricks of the trade from other young offenders. you can learn lots of shit for being in it. this is obviously your issue, and pushing it while your son is incarcerated is just going to send the wrong message. i would just concentrate on being a good listener and when he is out, set him on the right path.

i'm not saying you shouldn't fight for your rights, but since he doesn't have any, you'll be fighting for yourself while he is in there. i wouldn't worry about the education one receives from a youth prison. this isn't a school you're talking about...

[godfry n. glad]

Nu-uuuh.

Nope, don't do that.

His priorities are that his son learn correctly while in the care of the state....not lies.

One of the the things which sets off uncooperative, resistant behavior in teens is adults willfully ignoring the laws and standards to which they are supposed to adhere.

When adults are hypocrites, why they hell do they, teens, need to behave?

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by BracesForImpact

A few have advised me to seek out the National Center for Science Education and the Freedom From Religion Foundation as well. I may well do that depending on how I feel while speaking to the Superintendent tomorrow.

Excellent. I don't know about NCSE, but the FFRF could probably give you advice and maybe even assistance. I'm a member.

[ZEZOZE]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

One of the the things which sets off uncooperative, resistant behavior in teens is adults willfully ignoring the laws and standards to which they are supposed to adhere.

right.

best of luck with your son, no matter what you choose to do.

[BracesForImpact]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

Nu-uuuh.

Nope, don't do that.

His priorities are that his son learn correctly while in the care of the state....not lies.

One of the the things which sets off uncooperative, resistant behavior in teens is adults willfully ignoring the laws and standards to which they are supposed to adhere.

When adults are hypocrites, why they hell do they, teens, need to behave?

That's an excellent point. I've been trying to convince my son that at some point you have to move beyond the cards your dealt in life and move forward. You have to go from victim to victory.

[Rocky]

Sounds like your son is getting a good education.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by Rocky

Sounds like your son is getting a good education.

No...His son is getting more lies and abuse from adults in power. It is feeding the poor behavior because, as soon as he realizes that another adult in power, with responsibility, has willfully disobeyed the law, he'll be even more pissed off....and rightfully so.

[Ari]

Exactly. What happens when it's discovered the same people telling him to straighten up and fly right are absolutely morons?

It will be interesting to hear the ACLU's response to this.

[ZEZOZE]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

No...His son is getting more lies and abuse from adults in power. It is feeding the poor behavior because, as soon as he realizes that another adult in power, with responsibility, has willfully disobeyed the law, he'll be even more pissed off....and rightfully so.

so, while he is vulnerable after being abused, locked up away from family...why would you want to start up this controversy now? why not just let him do his time in peace and then address the issues? there are bigger fish to fry than christian ones.

you're betraying your own logic here, godfry.

think it through...don't just react. i'm not saying to not do anything, but not while he's in there. don't get all religious about it. it isn't going to fuck him up, and making a case of it while he is in there is just going to do what you say, godfry.

geez.

[godfry n. glad]

I don't know whether it applies or not, but he has "standing" right now.

There is no better time to lodge a complaint about the violation of proper legal procedure. If there is a failure by the state institution to respond now, there is reason to take the issue further. Immediately.

It should be done in a reasonable and appropriate matter. Were I Braces, I'd keep my son advised as to the steps taken and the rationale behind them and a demonstration of appropriate means of rectifying the situation. That, as such, should be an excellent education.

Yet...You advise that his legal guardian and parent acquiesce to continued abuse and lies. I'd say that is sucko advice.

[BracesForImpact]

I don't know, my son has mental and psychological issues. He is very impressionable, and wants very badly to fit in, to the point that he often gets into trouble. His IQ is in the upper 80's and depending on which particular psych assessment you pay attention to, he could be bipolar, have a personality disorder, depression, ADHD, or a skewed view of reality.

We've had him in and out of mental facilities, home counseling twice a week, outside counseling for his sexual abuse once per week. All the while we've been hammering away at morality, empathy and responsibility.

It bothers me because he buys into stuff like this hook, line and sinker. It's so much simpler for him. Why study the multiply converging lines of evidence that points to evolutionary fact when someone can show you a video and *poof* GAWD did it? It undoes all of the hard work I have put into him to get him think critically. He already has a fantasy prone personality.

I don't care whether he believes in god or not. In fact, he already does. I just want him to be well educated and have a good grasp of reality. This can only help him in the years to come considering the deck is stacked against him in the first place.

[ZEZOZE]

oh cut it out...he isn't being abused. start up a fight while he's in there and that might change. i never said not to challenge the system, but he might, for his son's sake, choose to wait until he is removed from it. he gets out in september. that isn't that long from now.

and like i said- i think it's selfish. this has less to do with the boy and more to do with your own outrage. any change will come after he is released. scoff, mock, belittle...this is the religious nature of humans i talk about.

i also think braces is looking for a way to spread the guilt.

[ZEZOZE]

Originally Posted by BracesForImpact

It undoes all of the hard work I have put into him to get him think critically.

that says a lot, considering he is incarcerated.

anyhow...there's not much more i can say. i hope your son is able to straighten up and i wish him well.

[ChuckF]

Originally Posted by InTheServiceOfZeke

anyhow...there's not much more i can say.

If only we could believe that, you prick.

[ZEZOZE]

Originally Posted by ChuckF

If only we could believe that, you prick.

why am i a prick? because i am posting with what i feel are the best interests of a troubled teen at heart? shame on me.

and you'd be wrong.

[ChuckF]

Originally Posted by InTheServiceOfZeke

why am i a prick?

This, for starters:

Originally Posted by InTheServiceOfZeke

that says a lot, considering he is incarcerated.

because i am posting with what i feel are the best interests of a troubled teen at heart? shame on me.

Yeah. Shame on you. Go shut the fuck up.

[Dingfod]

Originally Posted by InTheServiceOfZeke

that says a lot, considering he is incarcerated.

anyhow...there's not much more i can say. i hope your son is able to straighten up and i wish him well.

I hope when your son is incarcerated they teach him actual SCIENCE.

[ZEZOZE]

you don't have to like what i said and maybe it seems harsh, but i do think it's worth examining and i'm just giving advice. that wasn't a jab, but it says heaps that you perceived it as one. i've been and remain civil for this whole conversation.

[ChuckF]

Originally Posted by InTheServiceOfZeke

you don't have to like what i said and maybe it seems harsh, but i do think it's worth examining and i'm just giving advice. that wasn't a jab, but it says heaps that you perceived it as one.

It says that you're a prick.

i've been and remain civil for this whole conversation.

Stop lying and shut the fuck up, asshole.

[ZEZOZE]

whoa.

[BracesForImpact]

Originally Posted by InTheServiceOfZeke

you don't have to like what i said and maybe it seems harsh, but i do think it's worth examining and i'm just giving advice. that wasn't a jab, but it says heaps that you perceived it as one. i've been and remain civil for this whole conversation.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

It's quotes like that from people like Zeke that I hesitate to ask for help from internet forums. Audience + anonymity = asshole.

Zeke, it's all too easy to subscribe your harsh comment to me. Yet the truth of the matter is while my son was in his mothers' care in the fine state of Missouri, he was forced to fuck his own sister while the three step brothers watched. When he wet the bed, his mother wrung out the sheets into a glass and made him drink it. When he stole a cigarette, she put his hand under a knife and threatened to cut off his fingers. His step father abused him physically. ALL of this was substantiated by Missouri social services, yet under the motto "keep the family together" they simply stayed in close contact with the family (a social worker stayed there every single night for a time) until they finally gave me custody. My daughter is still in her mothers' care.

So yes, you're right Zeke, in this case, it IS the parents fault. But I'm the parent trying to fix it. So please, take your self righteous, indignant, pompous ass somewhere else, because I certainly don't want any further advice from you.

I haven't decided what I wish to do yet, but if anyone else wishes to give me their two cents (preferably without opening any old wounds for me) then please send it to me in PM.

I know FF abhors censorship of any kind, but could we please close this thread?

Thank You.