Bush lets out his inner asshole

[mickthinks]

There are no unresolved issues here.
I think the issue of whether your choice of title for this thread was prejudice feeding off media-spin is still unresolved, Watser?, as is the issue of whether I deserve to be attacked for the way I have argued my case, and the issue of whether viscousmemories's leadership is seriously lacking in the matter of good communication.

Mick

[Brimshack]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

There are no unresolved issues here.
I think the issue of whether your choice of title for this thread was prejudice feeding off media-spin is still unresolved, Watser?, as is the issue of whether I deserve to be attacked for the way I have argued my case, and the issue of whether viscousmemories's leadership is seriously lacking in the matter of good communication.

Mick

But that's not the issue and you know it, Mick. The issue is you consciously being a dick, and seeing how far you can press the issue, what kind of reactions you'll get, etc. That is what is happening in this thread. No more and no less. All assertions to the contrary are lies. Not errors. Not arguing a different point of view. Just lies.

Originally Posted by Brimshack

That is what is happening in this thread, and practically every thread in which you post.

[Brimshack]

Originally Posted by Watser?

You may not have noticed because you do not listen to anyone but yourself but I stopped giving a shit about the OP at least 3 months ago.

So has everyone else but you btw.

Actually, I think it's pretty clear that Mick stopped giving a shit about the OP months ago as well. This thread is now, the "Let's poke VM with a stick" thread. That is also the proper title for all of Mick's other threads with pseudo-philosophical titles, the ones where he discusses the announced topic only insofar as he can spin them into the VM stick poking game. Mick isn't discussing the OP at all. He never has and he never will.

[mickthinks]

Actually, I think it's pretty clear that I've discussed the OP [here] with anyone and everyone who can offer a reasoned opinion. (Your own contribution to that discussion [here] was notably abortive, Brimmo, but that is so like you.)

This thread has long been a demonstration of all the different ways the mob attempts to suppress unpopular opinions with concerted unpleasantness. (Your contributions in this thread have been extensive and quite exemplary!)

Mick
He never has and he never will. ... says Brim-"I'm Mr Reason. No, I'm not,"-shack. Bless!

[mickthinks]

Watser? says there are no unresolved issues in this thread. Here's another one:

Livius: What does "feminism" have to do with being appalled at a grown man making a kid cry? [...] Seriously mick, people talk a lot of shit about what feminism says or doesn't say. [...] You attributed a rather vague (and weird, imo) position to "feminism" at large without sourcing or even a solid argument to make a rhetorical point. Isn't that manipulative spin? [...] Although I wouldn't necessary call your manipulating the facts to present feminism as teaching that girls shouldn't cry when adults are rude to them dishonest so much as contrived to score rhetorical points. [...] I entered this thread to question what seemed to me your vague, unsourced rhetoric about feminism [...] I am questioning your claim that this situation is "a frail woman bursts into tears and that's automatically a bad thing the man has done" and that "feminism had educated us out of that kind of crap."

If you have anything at all, any source, any evidence, even a better fleshed-out argument for your claims about feminism, I'd be glad to pursue the discussion.
[mostly from here]

Mick: The idea that women's feelings are specially delicate and that men have a burden to protect them from getting distressed, and that a woman's distress in male company is the man's responsibility if he could have prevented it; that idea belongs to the kind of patriarchal society that I think feminism opposes.
[here]

Livius is not vituperative like vm has been, but still there are some unpleasant insinuations of shit-talk, spin, and near dishonesty in there. I'd like the discussion that livius kind of promised she'd pursue to centre around whether she might take some of them back.

Mick

[But]

Originally Posted by Brimshack

But that's not the issue and you know it, Mick. The issue is you consciously being a dick

Mick isn't a dick. He's a pussy or an asshole. An asshole that just wants to shit on everything.

[erimir]

Can't we like, exchange recipes or something?

[Smilin]

Gods. Another thread hi-jacked by Mick and his agenda on trying to pick a fight with VM.

I'm with erimir. I think I'll only respond to his future obsessions with VM by posting recipes.

Anyone for Oxe blood soup?

[mickthinks]

...Mick and his agenda on trying to pick a fight with VM.
I'm not picking fights with anyone. It was vm who picked a fight with me (here's where it starts, I reckon) and I am just asking him to come out of hiding and account for the way he did that. I think that's a reasonable thing to ask. I think a reasonable guy would be willing to do that.

That's just one of the unresolved issues here. There are others, including livius's broken undertaking to get back to me on the issue here.

I'm with erimir. Ah, that's how the mob forms, I think.

Mick

[Angakuk]

Mick, could explain for me just what you think constitutes an adequate resolution of an issue?

[erimir]

Recipe for quick mac and cheese:

One pack easy mac
water

Put the macaroni from the packet and the water in a bowl
microwave as directed
add cheese powder
stir

Enjoy!

[ShottleBop]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

[I'm not picking fights with anyone.

Yeah, right:

Originally Posted by mickthinks

I realise I'm butting in on the big US family domestic squabble here, and I should stay right out of it. Bush doesn't deserve a fair hearing, and even if he ever did, he wouldn't get it here, right? But what if it had been, not GW, but some other guy...

A frail woman bursts into tears and that's automatically a bad thing the man has done.

Really? I thought feminism had educated us out of that kind of crap.

Mick

That's where it starts, I reckon.

Originally Posted by mickthinks

I'm with erimir. Ah, that's how the mob forms, I think.

Mick

Oh, my goodness! TWO PEOPLE AGREED ON SOMETHING! A MOB HAS FORMED.

My guess, Angakuk, is that an adequate resolution, to mickthinks, is that everyone acknowledges the validity of his point of view, and apologizes to him for any unpleasantness they may have caused.



_____________
I considered not posting these comments. Had I not done so, it would have been out of concern that I might be deemed a member of the mob, rather than an individual expressing my own, independently-arrived at, opinion. That, I submit, would have been an example of censorhip by rule.

[Nullifidian]

Vegan Lemon Bars

Crust:
1/4 c. granulated sugar
1/2-3/4 c. unbleached all-purpose flour (the recipe I have calls for 1 cup, but that's way too much flour to press into the amount of margarine given)
5 tbsp. vegan margarine (many margarines have whey, a milk product, but "light" versions of conventional brands sometimes do without this, e.g. Blue Bonnet Light)

Filling:
3/4 cup granulated sugar
Juice and zest (grated rind) of two large lemons
1 tsp. vanilla extract
1/2 tsp. baking powder
1/8 tsp. salt
powdered sugar to sift (optional)

Directions:
Pre-heat oven to 350 degrees. Combine crust ingredients and press into the bottom of a 8" x 8" pan. Bake crust for 15 minutes. While the crust is baking, add the filling ingredients together and mix. I put the baking power in first before the sugar, then the lemon zest and juice on top, which keeps the baking powder from reacting with the lemon juice until the moment of mixing. Pour the mixed filling into the crust, then bake 20 minutes or more until set. Let cool. Then you can sift powdered sugar on top, but they're delicious without it as well.

Enjoy!

Makes 16 2"x2" squares.

I guess this makes me part of the culinary mob. Maybe I should join the Biotic Baking Brigade.

Beware all you scoundrels of industry
We know of your disgrace
So smile for the camera
With the cream pie in your face
You can hope that we won't find you out
As you're hiding in the shade
But someday soon you'll live to meet
The Biotic Baking Brigade

Chorus:

What's that sailing through the air
In the boardrooms see them shiver
You can spend your life hoping for pie in the sky
But the Baking Brigade delivers

- "Song for the BBB" by David Rovics

[mickthinks]

That's where it starts, I reckon.
ShottleBop, you appear to be saying the fight with vm started when I disagreed with Raw Story's reporting of Bush? So this is the Freethought Forum where disagreement with the in-crowd is interpreted as aggression!? That's certainly the way it feels from my end but I can't help thinking that some people at least aren't going to be happy to have their portrayed as closed-minded and intolerant of dissenting ideas.

TWO PEOPLE AGREED ON SOMETHING! A MOB HAS FORMED.
More than two people agree that normal standards of debate no longer apply in disputes with me.

My guess, Angakuk, is that an adequate resolution, to mickthinks, is that everyone acknowledges the validity of his point of view, and apologizes to him for any unpleasantness they may have caused.
It would be nice if the leaders of this community were brave enough to stand against the mob and say they agree with one or two of the things I have said. But I'd settle for a commitment to a dialogue aimed at resolving these issues.

Mick

[Naru]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

That's certainly the way it feels from my end but I can't help thinking that some people here at least aren't going to be happy to have their portrayed as closed-minded and intolerant of alternative ideas.

Because that's what's happening here. Obviously.

Originally Posted by mickthinks

More than two people agree that normal standards of debate don't apply in disputes with me.

Sorry, where can I find the codified version of these standards of debate?

[ShottleBop]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

That's where it starts, I reckon.
ShottleBop, you appear to be saying the fight with vm started when I disagreed with Raw Story's reporting of Bush? So this is the Freethought Forum where disagreement with the in-crowd is interpreted as aggression!? That's certainly the way it feels from my end but I can't help thinking that some people at least aren't going to be happy to have their portrayed as closed-minded and intolerant of dissenting ideas.

I'm saying that the way in which you disagreed--the belligerent tone of your post--could reasonably be taken as an indication that you were trying to pick a fight, rather than merely to engage in debate.

[mickthinks]

Bop, you are saying that the way in which I disagreed with The Raw Story report could reasonably be taken as an indication that I was trying to pick a fight with vm? I don't see why anyone would think vm was even a target of my criticism.

Mick

[mickthinks]

Mick, could explain for me just what you think constitutes an adequate resolution of an issue?
LOL! Not easily, Angakuk! As a pastor you know better than most how much compromise is involved in conflict resolution. I don't think the question arises, though, until there's a willingness on both sides to find a solution. At the moment I'm on my own.

Mick

[Angakuk]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

Mick, could explain for me just what you think constitutes an adequate resolution of an issue?
LOL! Not easily, Angakuk! As a pastor you know better than most how much compromise is involved in conflict resolution. I don't think the question arises, though, until there's a willingness on both sides to find a solution. At the moment I'm on my own.

Mick

That is a non-answer, Mick. Clearly you have some notion of what would constitute a resolution of the issue(s). Enough of an idea that you are able to form the opinion that it has not been achieved. So, what, in your opinion, would constitute such a resolution? I am not really concerned with how difficult it might be for you to answer the question, only that you answer it.

As I see it, the situation is this: A lot of posters have told you that they think you are wrong, with regard to your opinion of the OP and your complaints regarding vm (two separate issues). Most of those posters have, at some point, given reasons for their opinions. You have given reasons for your opinions. They haven't convinced you and you haven't convinced them. We are, apparently, at an impasse. Admitting that such an impasse exists may just be the only sort of resolution that is going to be achieved. If that sort of resolution does not suffice for you, and if you want something more, then you are going to have to do a better job of describing what that "something more" might look like.

Yes, as a pastor I am well aware of how much compromise goes into achieving conflict resolution. I am also aware that in order for an effective compromise to be hammered out, both parties need to understand and clearly express what it is that they want to get out of the compromise. So far it seems that most of your interlocutors have expressed a clear desire for you to shut up about it already. It is not at all clear, to me at any rate, what it is that you want, beyond some ill-defined sort of resolution.

[ShottleBop]

Originally Posted by mickthinks

Bop, you are saying that the way in which I disagreed with The Raw Story report could reasonably be taken as an indication that I was trying to pick a fight with vm? I don't see why anyone would think vm was even a target of my criticism.

Mick

Not with viscousmemories specifically. Just that you were trying to pick a fight. Did you not say, above, "I'm not picking fights with anyone"?

[Nullifidian]

I guess I'm going to have to bring out the big guns.

Vegan Cannoli

Filling Ingredients:
1 ~12 oz. box of firm Japanese tofu (this stuff is non-refrigerated)
1 container of Tofutti "Better than Cream Cheese"
1/4 cup + 2 tbsp. powdered sugar
2 tsp. lemon zest
Juice from half of a lemon
1 tbsp. vanilla extract

Remaining ingredients:
2 3/4 c. unbleached white flour
2 tbsp. sugar
1/4 tsp. cinnamon
1/4 c. vegetable shortening
1 flax egg (whisk 2 tbsp. flax powder/meal with 3 tbsp. water)
2/3 c. Marsala wine
1 EnerG substitute egg (1 1/2 tsp. EnerG powder with 2 tbsp. water)
Canola or other neutral oil for frying
2 c. vegan semi-sweet chocolate chips (you can look carefully at conventional brands. I found a Kroger store brand semi-sweet chocolate chunks—but no other kind—lacked whey or any other milk product, but chances are that if you're going to buy Tofutti imitation cream cheese and EnerG "egg" powder, you'll be at a store that carries vegan chocolate chips)
A pinch of powdered sugar for topping the cannoli.

Nota bene: For this recipe, you'll need cannoli forms and a very big pastry bag with a large tip.

Whirl tofu, Tofutti imitation cream cheese, powdered sugar, vanilla, lemon zest, and lemon juice in a food processor or blender, then refrigerate overnight to chill. This is the filling.

Mix flour, sugar, cinnamon, shortening, flax egg (see ingredients), and wine together to make a dough. Chill the dough in the refrigerator for about half an hour.

While dough is chilling, mix 1 EnerG Egg Replacer egg (see ingredients). This is for sticking the shells together.

Roll out dough on floured surface to about a 1/8 in. thickness.

Cut out 4 in. circles and then roll them one way so they turn into ovals.

Roll the long side of the oval lengthwise around the cannoli form and brush a little EnerG egg on the edge to make it stick.

Fry in canola oil (or other neutral oil) until they're a dark golden brown.

Drain on paper towels and carefully pull out the cannoli forms so that you can make more shells. If you have four cannoli forms, then do this two more times, to make twelve. Making any more is pointless.

When you have made all your shells, melt the vegan chocolate chips without burning them (heating them gradually in a pot over steaming, boiling water works) and, using a butter knife, line each shell with chocolate. Allow a little chocolate to cover the ends.

Refrigerate the cannoli shells until the chocolate sets.

Using a pastry bag with a big tip, squeeze the filling into every cannolo shell from each end.

Then sprinkle with powdered sugar.

You'll find you wind up with 10 cream-filled cannoli, and, since most stores sell cannoli forms four to a pack, you'll end up with 12 cannoli shells, but the extra two unfilled cannoli shells are delicious by themselves.

I made these for an Italian friend of mine who's a vegan, and he went mad for them.

Enjoy!

[mickthinks]

Clearly you have some notion of what would constitute a resolution of the issue(s).
Not so. All I clearly have at the moment is a notion of what an unresolved issue looks like;

• whether Watser?'s choice of title for this thread was prejudice feeding off media-spin
• whether I deserve to be attacked for the way I have argued my case
• whether viscousmemories's leadership is seriously lacking in the matter of good communication.
• whether livius still thinks I talked shit about feminism

So far it seems that most of your interlocutors have expressed a clear desire for you to shut up about it already. Yes, and they seem to think they have the right to demand my self-censorship simply because there are so many of them. They have a choice; to get sillier and sillier about it until they prove that is not what vm and livius claim it to be; or to allow me to criticise the poor communication here.

Mick

[mickthinks]

Thanks ShottleBop!

Did you not say, above, "I'm not picking fights with anyone"?
I'm sorry, I should have made it more clear; I'm not picking fights with anyone here, least of all with vm.

I guess in my first post I was picking a fight with the journalists at The Raw Story.

Mick