A revolution in thought

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Your game plan isn't working David. You're not normal to have to go to such lengths to attack me with vitriol which is truly not the scientific way. It's just not. You obviously are personally offended because you don't like the truth, but that is not my issue. Just want you to be aware of yourself and your personal demons.

No, I'm offended by serial liars. I can't stand dishonest creeps like you.*

Vivisectus has given you some good advice on marketing over the Web. I used to teach Web design, so I can verify that he is pointing you in the right direction.

The one thing I would expand upon is his suggestion on editing the book. While serializing the book may be a valid option, I think it's best to stick with a single volume. In this case, the book can be edited down to two words: THE END.

Those words obviously won't take up more than a single page, so you can keep your price nice and low, and hence affordable.

*Important note: The eyes are sense organs, and we don't see in real time.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Before I even read this, I am not sure why you are so intent on helping me.

It's obvious to everyone else why he is helping you.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

It is provable enough to make a claim. It's very easy to say nothing is provable because in some other universe the same laws of nature may not apply. That's true.

Who said anything about other universes with regards to the nature of time?

Lessans and your assertions about what time is/is not and what is possible/impossible about it are beliefs.

[ChristinaM]

He's probably trying to help you for the same reasons that I did. On our planet when people want to get things done they get a plan together and go do it without a lot of fuss and bother. Things just don't work here like they do on your world if all someone does is flail around and whine and waste time being a drama queen.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Iacchus

You can self publish at Lulu.com. There is no charge, and no overhead! They will print as little as one copy at a time, although you receive a discount when ordering (yourself) in volume.

They also have a complete list of fee based services which are quite reasonable, if you're not up to doing it all yourself.

In fact here is my book:

The Advent of Dionysus (Paperback) - Lulu

I have it listed for $17.00, and whenever I make a sale I receive $4.51. Oh well, it's better than nothing! I'm not really going out of my way to promote it though, for I'm in the process of re-editing it (which it badly needs). Once I do, however, I expect I will be pulling out all the stops.

Just didn't want peacegirl to miss this informative post.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

All the "apparent" evidence against him is not foolproof therefore evidence will vindicate him in the future, which only means the present at some later date.

The "apparent" evidence that is not foolproof is all the evidence there is, and it does not follow that future evidence will vindicate him. That is just wishful thinking. All the evidence that exists, refutes Lessans and supports the standard model of afferent vision, there is no reason to believe that any future evidence will support him. There is nothing that supports Lessans claims and conclusions.

[Vivisectus]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Before I even read this, I am not sure why you are so intent on helping me. It's appreciated more than you know, but the problem here is that this book cannot be handled in the ordinary way because it's not an ordinary book. It would be like Einstein trying to get the masses to read his paper on E=Mc2. Take just a second to imagine the difficulty if he had tried to get people in this way to buy his book, or knowledge. It's not the right way, although a website has its place, and for that I thank you. But I will not try to get people to go to certain pages in the hope of making a sale. That's not what this is about vivisectus. And in so far as my not following the instructions of Cory Rudl, I bought it to learn but it was premature because the book was not done. How could I sell a book that was not compiled yet? Be honest instead of giving me your ridiculous answers. I had no website for a reason. Why do you try so hard to put me down? I did this out of an honest effort to build a future website, but you are always jumping to premature conclusions which has been your MO since day one. This is insane: the fact that you tell me to go to Lulu when Trafford is no different as far as a POD company, is insane. If I listened to you I would never make any headway whatsoever. Admit Vivisectus, for once, that you don't know it all. If you can do that, we can communicate. If not, goodbye.

Why? Just for fun. As a sort of hypothetical exercise: how would I go about it if this was what I was trying to achieve? What would be the obvious obstacles? How do other people solve these issues, and can I apply these solutions to the problem at hand? What would I do, how long would I expect it to take, what would be the cost? As you know I do not think much of the book, but that just makes it a more interesting challenge. Anyone can sell good books. It takes real skill to sell one that is not likely to appeal.

And as it turns out, there are some immediately apparent, logical and easily achievable steps that could be taken in a few weeks.

Please do not get me wrong: I am in no way claiming my suggestions are anything special. They are not: they are what I, a person of (I hope) average intelligence can throw together over a coffee break or two. I have an advantage because my job requires me to have a basic knowledge of e-commerce, but as I pointed out to you, I am certainly no expert.

That said, it is easy, cheap, and the majority of the steps in it are proven to be effective: they are common sales and marketing knowledge. Everybody who sells things or propagates ideas online uses similar approaches and methodologies. Your friend the Health Ranger uses them very effectively, for instance.

None of them are too salesy. None of them misrepresent the book in any way, or try to trick people into buying something they do not want. They are simple but effective techniques of getting noticed, that is all.

You come up with some excuses for not doing anything, but I don't think they are very good ones: The book is actually written as an explanation of the ideas for ordinary people: it requires no technical knowledge, so your comparison to Einsteins theoretical physics is not a very good one. Nor is it true that you had nothing to sell and nowhere to sell it: you had books for ages, and before that you had PDF files you could easily have sold or otherwise distributed. By the same token that website of yours has been around for months and months now.

Lulu seems to offer far better flexibility than Trafford as well as a pretty handy E-book sales channel that allows you to pay per sale: easy to use, and no overhead. Also they do not seem to end up anywhere near Traffords pricing if you use their pricing tool. But hey: if you can achieve the same at Trafford, by all means stay with them. It is the result that matters: a book that people are more likely to buy, in a format that is easily accessible, so they are more likely to read it.

But I get the feeling you are really not interested in any of it. That you would rather sit around dreaming of a miracle in stead of pursuing this goal you claim to have. The problem is that this does not match up at all with the things you say or claim.

[davidm]

She won't recall, of course -- with her it's always in one ear, out the other -- but I wrote her a very nice statement hawking the book, artfully done to make it seem attractive while concealing the details of its dreadful content. Oh, well, another opportunity missed!

She also missed the opportunity to make the acquaintance of Wayne Stewart, whose claims about what happens after we die are exactly in accord with those of Lessans. Oh, well, another missed opportunity! Rather than actually try to market this book and make alliances with others who would support and promote at least one of her father's three non-discoveries, she'd rather waste time with big meanies like us. One can only wonder why.

I think she missed her chance with Wayne, as I doubt he'll be back after his claim was, shall we say, thoroughly deconstructed in the spin-off thread.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

But I get the feeling you are really not interested in any of it. That you would rather sit around dreaming of a miracle in stead of pursuing this goal you claim to have. The problem is that this does not match up at all with the things you say or claim.

In the Christian religion, that I am familiar with, we are taught that we only need to present the 'Word' to someone and the 'Holy spirit' will do the rest. Perhaps Peacegirl believes that just having someone read the book is enough and Lessans words will move them to believe what he wrote. Doesn't seem to be working very well.

[davidm]

Yes, a sure sign that the Christian religion is a run-of-the-mill con job. Most humans are credulous and yearn for some kind of certitude, no matter how implausible. Peacegirl's problem is that her father's claims are so demonstrably idiotic that they can't even fool the gullible. Although I must confess how any religion manages to hold sway over so many people, even allowing for their gullibility, utterly eludes me. Christianity in particular is so preposterous and self-contradictory it's a wonder it ever got any traction at all. Islam at least is an internally coherent falsehood.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Who said anything about other universes with regards to the nature of time?

I thought you did.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Lessans and your assertions about what time is/is not and what is possible/impossible about it are beliefs.

This is not an assertion; this is an observation that does not have to be supported by empirical evidence to be true. The truth is we only have the present, therefore the movement from past to present to future always takes place in the present moment. In other words, the past is simply the perception of a relation between two points. As I move from here to there, the past is what I leave behind while in motion; it is my ability to remember something that happened. In actual reality you are not moving between two points, a beginning and an end, you are in motion in the present.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by ChristinaM

He's probably trying to help you for the same reasons that I did. On our planet when people want to get things done they get a plan together and go do it without a lot of fuss and bother. Things just don't work here like they do on your world if all someone does is flail around and whine and waste time being a drama queen.

I don't mind him helping me, but if you read his posts he can't help but get his little digs in, which I won't tolerate. You wouldn't either.

[LadyShea]

I don't mind him helping me, but if you read his posts he can't help but get his little digs in, which I won't tolerate. You wouldn't either.

By coming to this site and continuing this discussion, you are demonstrating that you are not only tolerating it, but seeking it. You have stated many times that we are a waste of your time, then said we were not.

[Vivisectus]

This is not an assertion; this is an observation that does not have to be supported by empirical evidence to be true

So it is an observation that does not require evidence derived by observation to be true?

[peacegirl]

Vivisectus: I think we know enough at this stage to put together a rudimentary check-list of short-term goals that need to be met to further your project.

1: Create your value-statement: a very brief message that explains why people should be interested in the book. It needs to be well-written, ultra-inclusive, appealing and clear. You will base the rest of your messaging on it. Please bear in mind that the value-statement should answer the questions "Why should I be interested in this book? What will it do for me? What is its unique value that I cannot get anywhere else?"

I would think this book would be valuable to anyone searching for answers to the problems of our world. I don't see anything wrong with what is already on the website. In fact, I might use this as a press release.

Because it will be very difficult to believe or even conceive how a natural law, acting as a catalyst, can change the entire world of human relations for the benefit of all mankind; and because it is imperative that this fantastic BREAKTHROUGH be brought to light, you can now listen to the author as he reads and elaborates on the first chapter of his book, “Beyond the Framework of Modern Thought. The author reveals the actual discovery in Chapter Two, which is nothing other than a natural, psychological law of man’s ultimate nature which remained hidden until now. This law prevents man from striking the first blow, which eliminates the need to blame, punish, to retaliate or to turn the other cheek.

Two other natural laws are also revealed in later chapters. It is demonstrated that because we never understood a projecting function of the brain, words developed that allowed us to see, as on a screen, that half the human race is an inferior physiognomic production — homely, bad-looking, etc. But these words do not symbolize reality because people are not ugly or beautiful, just different, and when the truth is learned — WHY THE EYES ARE NOT A SENSE ORGAN, the use of these words, and this kind of unjust, hurtful discrimination, must come to an end.

The other law asks this question: With the Earth billions of years old, and with millions and millions of babies coming into the world since time immemorial, doesn’t it seem a strange coincidence and unbelievable phenomenon that YOU, OF ALL PEOPLE, were born and are alive at this infinitesimal fraction of time? The undeniable answer will make you very happy by removing any fears you might have regarding your own death.

2: Decide on the keywords that you want to use. These keywords should relate to whatever interest people can have that would make them likely to also be interested in your book. This is also very important: it will help you generate traffic, and we will need to keep this little list if keywords in mind when we put together the content of the new site, as they will have to appear regularly in text that we put in there.

This is a tough one because people would be drawn to it if I included keywords related to marriage and children, but it could be misleading due to the fact that this doesn't come until later in the book.

3: Re-edit your book and get it set up on Lulu. Aim for a 15 dollar softback version, and a 5.99 ebook. This will mean bringing it down to about 300 pages on US letter sized paper. With a reduced font, and by perhaps omitting some of the more controversial parts, this should not be hard to do. I do agree that keywords could help people get to the website, but without endorsement this knowledge is going to go nowhere, which is why I think the most important thing is to reach philosophers, scientists, new age people

I wish I could re-edit the book but it's too late for that. I am just too tired, and no matter how you slice it people are either going to be interested or they're not. It is a nurturing book that has nothing in it but information that will help mankind. Taking out controversial parts won't do a damn thing if someone has already made up his mind that the book has no value. That is not the kind of person that should be reading it then. Are you telling me to take out his discovery on the eyes because it's controversial? I sort of agree with you that keywords are important. I need help here. I also agree with you that I should put my effort in reaching people who are interested in this subject matter such as the groups you mentioned.

Alternately, split the book into several volumes. It will look better if there is a series of books, rather than a single manifesto-esque tome. Lulu can do 4 books of 150 pages each for 8 dollars a pop: sell them for 12 as a soft-back and 3.99 as an ebook and you have a pretty sweet price-point and some money to use on other marketing methods. That way you do not have to have an abbreviated and an extended version, and can still position your products at a good price-point.

Hmmm, I am curious what the company I'm using charges for 150 pages. I will have to ask my rep and compare. I really don't see how I could divide the book up into separate books without ruining the integrity. Each chapter leads into the next. Even if someone bought all four books it would still be a lot less than what my company is charging.

4: Re-design your website from the ground up. You do not have to build it if you are averse to putting in the effort to learn basic web-design (again, this is not hard, and something that will make you much more flexible in the future as you will be able to easily adapt your strategy as you go along and learn what works and what doesn’t), but you can at least make a mock-up that shows exactly how you want it. Make sure it looks professional, that it has a logical structure, and remember that it is a sales-tool primarily: it is your calling-card, sales-person and cash registrar all rolled into one.

Thanks. Your advice seems sincere, for once. Keep it up and we'll actually get along.

5: Based on your value-statement and keeping in mind the keywords you have selected, begin to generate some content for your site.

I have to do this with a web designer. Once I find someone to work with I can rearrange things, add new content using keywords, and try to capture people's interest without giving too much information. It may scare them away.


I would say this is all achievable in about 2 weeks, and that is assuming you can only spend a few hours on it every working day, with say an afternoon on weekends. Point 5 will take a bit longer, but that is fine as we can continually update the site with more content.

What do you mean more content? More selling points? I already have too much content on there.

Once you are underway here, we can start looking at links to other sites that share the same keywords as you have selected, and try to further increase your relevance to search engines by having mutual links with them, and explore some advertising options. We can also look at perhaps creating a blog and seeing if we can find like-minded blogs out there to link up with. There are also facebook options to explore, youtube channel content to consider, maybe having a look at what we can achieve via twitter.

Why are you being so nice all of a sudden? You're really going out of your way to help me, which I appreciate but am having a hard time getting use to. I was looking at a lot of peace sites that might be interested in exchanging links. Just remember that I'm in nursery school when it comes to this stuff, so it's going to take some time but I am determined.

All this, of course, presumes that you really feel about this book the way you say you do: that you mean to spread it, that you want to get as many people as possible to read it, and that you intend to seriously pursue these goals. You say you do sometimes, but your actions are those of someone with no intentions of doing much of anything at all. In close to a year you have achieved next to nothing and have produced little more than excuses.

I do want to pursue these goals, but I had to feel good about the book. I have done the best I can so I'm ready to move on to the marketing phase.

If you just want to have this remain as a sort of dream, then that is fine: it can be a kind of hobby, your own version of hoping for a lottery-win. There is nothing wrong with that.

But if you do not, then the rate at which you achieve things is so incredibly slow that you are unlikely to ever see any results. If you are serious about this then you should ask yourself: why does it take some random internet moron to write out a simple plan during his coffee-break to find out that this whole thing can be gotten underway in less than a fortnight?

The way you described the plan, it seems very doable, but still is going to take some hard work in the beginning. I do like your ideas.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

]Before I even read this, I am not sure why you are so intent on helping me. It's appreciated more than you know, but the problem here is that this book cannot be handled in the ordinary way because it's not an ordinary book. It would be like Einstein trying to get the masses to read his paper on E=Mc2. Take just a second to imagine the difficulty if he had tried to get people in this way to buy his book, or knowledge. It's not the right way, although a website has its place, and for that I thank you. But I will not try to get people to go to certain pages in the hope of making a sale. That's not what this is about vivisectus. And in so far as my not following the instructions of Cory Rudl, I bought it to learn but it was premature because the book was not done. How could I sell a book that was not compiled yet? Be honest instead of giving me your ridiculous answers. I had no website for a reason. Why do you try so hard to put me down? I did this out of an honest effort to build a future website, but you are always jumping to premature conclusions which has been your MO since day one. This is insane: the fact that you tell me to go to Lulu when Trafford is no different as far as a POD company, is insane. If I listened to you I would never make any headway whatsoever. Admit Vivisectus, for once, that you don't know it all. If you can do that, we can communicate. If not, goodbye.

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

Why? Just for fun. As a sort of hypothetical exercise: how would I go about it if this was what I was trying to achieve? What would be the obvious obstacles? How do other people solve these issues, and can I apply these solutions to the problem at hand? What would I do, how long would I expect it to take, what would be the cost? As you know I do not think much of the book, but that just makes it a more interesting challenge. Anyone can sell good books. It takes real skill to sell one that is not likely to appeal.

And as it turns out, there are some immediately apparent, logical and easily achievable steps that could be taken in a few weeks.

Please do not get me wrong: I am in no way claiming my suggestions are anything special. They are not: they are what I, a person of (I hope) average intelligence can throw together over a coffee break or two. I have an advantage because my job requires me to have a basic knowledge of e-commerce, but as I pointed out to you, I am certainly no expert.

That said, it is easy, cheap, and the majority of the steps in it are proven to be effective: they are common sales and marketing knowledge. Everybody who sells things or propagates ideas online uses similar approaches and methodologies. Your friend the Health Ranger uses them very effectively, for instance.

None of them are too salesy. None of them misrepresent the book in any way, or try to trick people into buying something they do not want. They are simple but effective techniques of getting noticed, that is all.

You come up with some excuses for not doing anything, but I don't think they are very good ones: The book is actually written as an explanation of the ideas for ordinary people: it requires no technical knowledge so your comparison to Einsteins theoretical physics is not a very good one.

It does require some understanding of the free will/determinism debate (I believe)

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

Nor is it true that you had nothing to sell and nowhere to sell it: you had books for ages, and before that you had PDF files you could easily have sold or otherwise distributed. By the same token that website of yours has been around for months and months now.

Let me reiterate that this has taken me a long time to compile. Everything was necessary. Saying what I could have done is not helpful. I am where I am now, and I'm moving forward.

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

Lulu seems to offer far better flexibility than Trafford as well as a pretty handy E-book sales channel that allows you to pay per sale: easy to use, and no overhead. Also they do not seem to end up anywhere near Traffords pricing if you use their pricing tool. But hey: if you can achieve the same at Trafford, by all means stay with them. It is the result that matters: a book that people are more likely to buy, in a format that is easily accessible, so they are more likely to read it.

I don't like the fact that Lulu does not have good phone support. Trafford has been excellent in that regard. I only have good things to say about them.

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

But I get the feeling you are really not interested in any of it. That you would rather sit around dreaming of a miracle in stead of pursuing this goal you claim to have. The problem is that this does not match up at all with the things you say or claim.

Not true at all. I am pursuing this goal with determination. I've just had a lost feeling about how to go about it with no budget to speak of. I like a lot of your ideas. I should copy them and put them in my documents for easy reference. Thanks Vivisectus. You put a lot of time and thought into this post and I appreciate it!

[Vivisectus]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I don't mind him helping me, but if you read his posts he can't help but get his little digs in, which I won't tolerate. You wouldn't either.

Amazing how someone with all this mathematical, undeniable, completely scientific truth on their side can nevertheless be so sensitive to any hint of sarcasm as to become utterly incapable of getting their point across at the merest whiff of its presence. You would think that it would be trivially simple to just respond with devastatingly self-evident truth, perhaps leavened by a modicum of wit, and thus render us all to begrudgingly respectful silence.

You truly are a creature of excuses. You surround yourself with them, a protective layer of them seems to be present at all times between you and reality.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

By coming to this site and continuing this discussion, you are demonstrating that you are not only tolerating it, but seeking it. You have stated many times that we are a waste of your time, then said we were not.

It has been a waste of time for the most part, although I did get some help here and there, which made it worthwhile. Actually I put on the flap that I was his daughter so people will know who I am right off the bat.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

Amazing how someone with all this mathematical, undeniable, completely scientific truth on their side can nevertheless be so sensitive to any hint of sarcasm as to become utterly incapable of getting their point across at the merest whiff of its presence. You would think that it would be trivially simple to just respond with devastatingly self-evident truth, perhaps leavened by a modicum of wit, and thus render us all to begrudgingly respectful silence.

You truly are a creature of excuses. You surround yourself with them, a protective layer of them seems to be present at all times between you and reality.

Any hint of sarcasm? I've been bombarded with every kind of verbal attack you can think of. My nerve endings are raw from it, and therefore it's no wonder I am a little rough at the edges. You would be too. I don't think a lot of people in my position could deal with the kind of vitriol that I've experienced in here.

[davidm]

You get vitriol because you are a detestable, chronic liar.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I thought you did.

Nope, you can re-read the exchange as it is quoted in this same post. Never mentioned it. You keep thinking I have said things I didn't say or think things I don't think. Do you even read the posts or are you going by whatever information is in your head labeled LadyShea?

This is not an assertion;

Yes, it is. Have you forgotten the definition of assertion?

this is an observation

The nature of time cannot be observed. So it is a belief or opinion, not an observation

that does not have to be supported by empirical evidence to be true.

If it is not supported by empirical evidence, not universally shared, and cannot be tested or disproven/proven it is a belief or opinion. It may or may not be true.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

Then there can be no such thing as future evidence that will vindicate Lessans. All there is is the present, and in the present all the evidence universally opposes his claims.

Of course I can. These are concepts that can be used in the present. When I think of the future or past, I am doing this in the present. I can quite enjoyably think about the time when Lessans will be vindicated, and this has no bearing on the truth that only the present exists.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Any hint of sarcasm? I've been bombarded with every kind of verbal attack you can think of. My nerve endings are raw from it, and therefore it's no wonder I am a little rough at the edges. You would be too. I don't think a lot of people in my position could deal with the kind of vitriol that I've experienced in here.

You repeatedly come here of your very own volition without coercion, so complaining about the people here makes you seem insane. Or like you have a martyr complex.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I don't think a lot of people in my position could deal with the kind of vitriol that I've experienced in here.

Anyone with half a brain and who was not a fundie would have left a long time ago.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I can quite enjoyably think about the time when Lessans will be vindicated,

Fundamentalist wet dream.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

That seems a pretty good deal - fairly decent earnings per sale too. At 343 pages it is not that much smaller than your book either so the price should come out roughly the same.

It boils down to 13.50 in Europestanian Dubloons - pretty close to the ideal price of 9.95 - the price at which I personally tend to impulse-buy just about anything with 2 covers and some pages in if I am even remotely interested.

Also note how Iachhus has used proper keywords to help people with similar interest find his book.

Oh and look, a 7 euro 90 ebook version! Convenient, attractively priced, and with the added benefit that there is no waiting involved. Says here that LULU will actually have the book on their server ready to send in PDF format to anyone who wants to buy it, and just charge 80 cents per sale. That is a 90% profit margin - although you would still have to put some mulah into marketing if you wanted to really pursue it.

All in all, a much more elegant solution.

There have been a lot of complaints with Lulu. And the savings would not be that great: $34 (for a 600 page book) versus $39.

greatcleave: Lulu Sucks