A revolution in thought

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by koan

I don't just say it, I prove I've read it over and over again.
Lessans mentions Plato six times. He only mentions and disparages those with whom he feels he is competing and improving upon. To play scientist you need access to books not yet found in second hand stores.

Also, I'm not upset. You are upset because facts do not support your argument. I'm not upset because the fact do support my position. My only concern has been that people, like you, who can't accept facts contradictory to their argument are quite often mentally ill. I'm no longer concerned because you aren't going to become concerned and there is no benefit to continuing trying to get you to seek help.

I don't need to discredit Lessans because he has no credit. You can't discredit someone who doesn't have it in the first place. It's a non-issue.

I feel so sorry for you koan, I actually want to take you in my arms and rock you. You have made extradinary efforts (beyond what a normal person would or could do) to make yourself feel alive and, even more important, visible. Because of your fragile ego, you cannot allow anyone to disturb your view of the world. It's really okay honey. I just want people to know the reason you are on the attack big time. This is your big shot. You came here late in the game, and your reason for staying is a deluded belief that somehow, someway, you would rise above the rest in your intelligence. If you could just get people to hear you, you would be put on a pedestal for all to see. I get it, I really do. Koan, if you need anyone to cradle you and give you a bottle (I'm not joking; this can be cathartic); I am here for you, even if it's not person to person. Virtual one on one can work just as well. I'm praying for your total healing.

[specious_reasons]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I feel so sorry for you koan, I actually want to take you in my arms and rock you. You have made extradinary efforts (beyond what a normal person would or could do) to make yourself feel alive and, even more important, visible. Because of your fragile ego, you cannot allow anyone to disturb your view of the world. It's really okay honey. I just want people to know the reason you are on the attack big time. This is your big shot. You came here late in the game, and your reason for staying is a deluded belief that somehow, someway, you would rise above the rest in your intelligence. If you could just get people to hear you, you would be put on a pedestal for all to see. I get it, I really do. Koan, if you need anyone to cradle you and give you a bottle (I'm not joking; this can be cathartic); I am here for you, even if it's not person to person. Virtual one on one can work just as well. I'm praying for your total healing.

That was one of the more insulting things I've read here.

Koan has your number and you hate it, don't you?

[Crumb]

[Vivisectus]

the power of projection is strong in this one

Of course Koan is the one strongly personally invested in whether this book makes sense.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by specious_reasons

That was one of the more insulting things I've read here.

Koan has your number and you hate it, don't you?

Actually you feel insulted because the truth is getting a little too close for comfort.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

the power of projection is strong in this one

Of course Koan is the one strongly personally invested in whether this book makes sense.

Wrong, if that were true she wouldn't have called me schizophrenic the first day she came online (okay, may it was the second or third day, I can't remember). This is classic projection on her part.

[Crumb]

So... you think that koan is schizophrenic?

[Vivisectus]

Lessanese logic in action ITT

[naturalist.atheist]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

If you could just get people to hear you, you would be put on a pedestal for all to see.

Talk about projection.

[Vivisectus]

That whole rant is a little window into the things PG doesn't want to know about herself, but kind of does.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Crumb

So... you think that koan is schizophrenic?

I have no idea. I would never diagnose someone online. She is the one that brought this whole subject up. I'm just following her lead. For her to call me schizophrenic is completely and utterly out of line.

[naturalist.atheist]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I have no idea. I would never diagnose someone online. She is the one that brought this whole subject up. I'm just following her lead. For her to call me schizophrenic is completely and utterly out of line.

Only you think it is completely and utterly out of line. That's because you are crazy and possibly schizophrenic.

[traumaturgist]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I feel so sorry for you koan, I actually want to take you in my arms and rock you. You have made extradinary efforts (beyond what a normal person would or could do) to make yourself feel alive and, even more important, visible. Because of your fragile ego, you cannot allow anyone to disturb your view of the world. It's really okay honey. I just want people to know the reason you are on the attack big time. This is your big shot. You came here late in the game, and your reason for staying is a deluded belief that somehow, someway, you would rise above the rest in your intelligence. If you could just get people to hear you, you would be put on a pedestal for all to see. I get it, I really do. Koan, if you need anyone to cradle you and give you a bottle (I'm not joking; this can be cathartic); I am here for you, even if it's not person to person. Virtual one on one can work just as well. I'm praying for your total healing.

No newcomer to FF should be allowed full membership unless and until they have made at least 5 probationary posts in this thread and replied to this passage at least once.

Just...because.

[sadie]

Originally Posted by traumaturgist

No newcomer to FF should be allowed full membership unless and until they have made at least 5 probationary posts in this thread and replied to this passage at least once.

Just...because.

Hey, no fair changing the rules while I am already in the game!

[traumaturgist]

Originally Posted by sadie

Hey, no fair changing the rules while I am already in the game!

Nah, Sadie, you're fine...I wrote that while invoking a "Think of the Children" clause for all who come after...sort of like a trial by (f)ire....

[Crumb]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I have no idea. I would never diagnose someone online. She is the one that brought this whole subject up. I'm just following her lead. For her to call me schizophrenic is completely and utterly out of line.

So you have no idea what it means to be projecting, but decided to tell koan she was doing it anyway.

[Dennis Campbell]

Originally Posted by Crumb

So you have no idea what it means to be projecting, but decided to tell koan she was doing it anyway.

Projecting is attributing to someone else what you're doing. That is not schizophrenic, it is a common defense mechanism. Peacegirl is a glaring example. Agree that a diagnosis of psychosis is almost always of line based on text on a screen. It is also irrelevant and adds nothing to the discussion except to say "I don't like you," a lot.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

Bump.

Bump.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

Bump.

Bump.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

Bump.

Bump.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

Bump.

Bump.

[Angakuk]

Originally Posted by Dennis Campbell

Projecting is attributing to someone else what you're doing. That is not schizophrenic, it is a common defense mechanism. Peacegirl is a glaring example. Agree that a diagnosis of psychosis is almost always of line based on text on a screen. It is also irrelevant and adds nothing to the discussion except to say "I don't like you," a lot.

I don't think that the reference to projection was meant as a symptom of schizophrenia. Rather, it was about peacegirl's accusation that Koan was projecting when she described peacegirl as possibly being schizophrenic. The claim that Koan was projecting implied, whether peacegirl understood that or not, that Koan must then herself be schizophrenic. Peacegirl, in response, denied that she was accusing Koan of being schizophrenic, thereby suggesting that she did not know the meaning of "projections".

[koan]

The truth hurts. I don't control the truth, it is what it is.

Lessans has no credit to destroy. You can't blame me for that.

I started this thread as a "late comer" because you don't like my opinion. You went to a new forum. Are they not all "late comers"? No. They are people subject to indoctrination. They are fresh faces, just as I was before you attacked me for my honesty. When I said "Oh, I get it! He's (Lessans) a schizophrenic!" It wasn't meant to be an insult. I had an epiphany. It made sense of the nonsense. It's the only thing that makes sense of his nonsense. I wasn't trying to be cruel I was actually being sympathetic. That wasn't a first assumption. Like it or not, I read the book, I forced myself to read the entire thing so I couldn't be said to be jumping to conclusions.

Your fathers book sucks. It's a bad book. It doesn't matter if he was crazy or if you are crazy. The book stands as an entity. As an entity it sucks. Allowing that he, and you for promoting it, are mentally ill is actually a kindness. You can't be held accountable.

You think that time will tell that he and you, by proxy, are messiahs and will be absolved. I'm giving you an out. You won't be absolved, but you can be forgiven for your idiocy because you are mentally ill. Either way it's a win win. You're the messiah or you're mentally ill. Either way we can't hate you.

But we do feel sorry for you. We feel sorry that the world isn't going to gain further benefit from your existence as long as you insist on promoting a book that is fatally flawed.

Zero people agree with it. You've already stated this. Zero. We aren't afraid. We are quite sure your father has historically and empirically been proven wrong. We are sure because history and empirical evidence says so.

We have credit because... you know... science. You do not. We don't have to prove anything to you. You have to prove we are wrong. To do so you'll have to do something you've never considered. You'll have to learn science. It's not your fault you have to learn it, it's your fathers. He's the one who decided to make statements like

Originally Posted by Lessans p.6

it is mathematical, scientific, and undeniable, and it is not necessary to deal in what has been termed the ‘exact sciences’ in order to be exact and scientific.

Exact and scientific are not exact and scientific yet you feel compelled to make them so. Your father knew he was bullshitting. He put that sentence in there to tip you off and you missed it. We know his science and exactness are neither exact nor science yet you keep telling us, despite Lessans' assertions to agree with us, that he is both scientific and exact. He admitted he doesn't care if he's right about eyes being sense organs or not yet you are convinced he has to be right. All the hints are there that he knew he could never prove anything outside of blind faith. He wrote it down in the text... but your faith in him exceeds his own so you are trying to make him a religion. You believe more in him than he knew he could believe in himself.

Being exact and scientific are not necessary in Lessansville to be scientifically exact. Don't try to make him be something he already knew he wasn't.

And don't hate me because you didn't figure it out yourself.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by koan

The truth hurts. I don't control the truth, it is what it is.

Lessans has no credit to destroy. You can't blame me for that.

I started this thread as a "late comer" because you don't like my opinion. You went to a new forum. Are they not all "late comers"? No. They are people subject to indoctrination. They are fresh faces, just as I was before you attacked me for my honesty. When I said "Oh, I get it! He's (Lessans) a schizophrenic!" It wasn't meant to be an insult. I had an epiphany. It made sense of the nonsense. It's the only thing that makes sense of his nonsense. I wasn't trying to be cruel I was actually being sympathetic. That wasn't a first assumption. Like it or not, I read the book, I forced myself to read the entire thing so I couldn't be said to be jumping to conclusions.

Your fathers book sucks. It's a bad book. It doesn't matter if he was crazy or if you are crazy. The book stands as an entity. As an entity it sucks. Allowing that he, and you for promoting it, are mentally ill is actually a kindness. You can't be held accountable.

You don't even know what the discovery is. Folks, is this nuts? I don't even give the people here credit that they will see through you. They are on the same anti-peacegirl bandwagon. What can I say? This rejection has more to do with your need to prove yourself than anything to do with Lessans or me or anyone. I'm just an easy target for your unresolved issues.

Originally Posted by koan

You think that time will tell that he and you, by proxy, are messiahs and will be absolved. I'm giving you an out. You won't be absolved, but you can be forgiven for your idiocy because you are mentally ill. Either way it's a win win. You're the messiah or you're mentally ill. Either way we can't hate you.

I don't need your forgiveness. You need mine. I forgive you because you know not what you do. You're ignorant.

Originally Posted by koan

But we do feel sorry for you. We feel sorry that the world isn't going to gain further benefit from your existence as long as you insist on promoting a book that is fatally flawed.

We? Who is this "we"? Now you are gathering your cronies for support koan? You're so predictable. You keep talking about my wanting people to benefit from my existence. There you go projecting again. You have accused me of this all along, and you don't even know me. It's the worst kind of attack because you have nothing to back this accusation up. You're just throwing around labels, which is morally wrong. Either people are going to take your word for it because they don't like me and therefore will agree with you regardless, (this is what a group think is all about), or they have the wherewithall to be a little more objective and question what your motives are. This vendetta (and it is a vendetta) is not about me at all. This is about YOU. To say this book is fatally flawed without proof is just another underhanded tactic to get people to join you in your mission to be the winner of this debate at all costs. This is just a game to you. You will never win no matter how hard you try because truth wins out every time, even if takes a new generation to get this knowledge investigated.

Originally Posted by koan

Zero people agree with it. You've already stated this. Zero. We aren't afraid. We are quite sure your father has historically and empirically been proven wrong. We are sure because history and empirical evidence says so.

You keep insinuating that no one agrees with the book, as if this is some kind of proof. Very few people in the world believe that man's will is not free. That doesn't mean man's will is free. You cannot determine what is true based on the majority. History does not lie, that is true, but unfortunately the inferences made can be mistaken, and once a theory has graduated into fact, it develops a life of its own.

Originally Posted by koan

We have credit because... you know... science. You do not. We don't have to prove anything to you. You have to prove we are wrong. To do so you'll have to do something you've never considered. You'll have to learn science. It's not your fault you have to learn it, it's your fathers. He's the one who decided to make statements like

But he was right, that's the irony. It is not necessary to deal with the exact sciences in order to be exact in one's thinking. Even though this is not math, it is just as undeniable, if you understand the reasoning behind his observations. You obviously are not of that group. I am not here to bash you; I'm just telling you why you're completely inaccurate in your conclusions.

Originally Posted by koan

Exact and scientific are not exact and scientific yet you feel compelled to make them so. Your father knew he was bullshitting. He put that sentence in there to tip you off and you missed it.

He wasn't that type so are wrong once again. No surprise. Since you've been here you've gotten nothing right. Amazing! You have no idea what the discovery is, yet you supposedly read the book. It's so strange coming from my vantage point. I get to see people's true colors, and yours isn't a pretty picture.

Originally Posted by koan

We know his science and exactness are neither exact nor science yet you keep telling us, despite Lessans' assertions to agree with us, that he is both scientific and exact. He admitted he doesn't care if he's right about eyes being sense organs or not yet you are convinced he has to be right. All the hints are there that he knew he could never prove anything outside of blind faith. He wrote it down in the text... but your faith in him exceeds his own so you are trying to make him a religion. You believe more in him than he knew he could believe in himself.

The evidence that science is using to make the claim of afferent sight is circumstantial ONLY. Circumstantial evidence can be very convincing, but it can be wrong. That is not enough to throw Lessans under the bus which you are trying desperately to do. This is not how true scientists work. They step back and refuse to make any rash judgments. That leaves you out. The odd thing about all this is how you bulldozed your way into this forum and took over the thread, trying to discredit him from day one. You even had the audacity to call me and him schizophrenic. Does anyone here think there's something wrong with this, or all you all so easily swayed? This is why my being here will only incite more vitriol. There's nothing good to come out of it. As with any forum of this type, group think is a nasty side-effect that will kill any serious discussion that could amount to anything other than the same old regurgitation of old facts. This whole thread is a house of cards that will fall the minute someone of authority gives support for this work. I'm just not interested in discussing this book with this group anymore because the damage has already been done. There is no trace of objectivity left.

Originally Posted by koan

Being exact and scientific are not necessary in Lessansville to be scientifically exact. Don't try to make him be something he already knew he wasn't.

And don't hate me because you didn't figure it out yourself.

I don't hate you, I feel sorry for you. Something is wrong, and it's not with me. The fact that you use names coined by others, such as Lessansville, shows me the total disrespect you have for him. Therefore, you cannot begin to see things objectively. I am not interested in conversing with you anymore. You need to figure out what drives you and why you have such a self-rightous attitude. Not only will it help you psychologically, but it will help you to be a much nicer individual.

[naturalist.atheist]

peacegirl, constantly claiming that people haven't read the book or understood it when they have read it and understood it, but disagreed with it, that is nuts. It could even be schizophrenic.

Get help peacegirl.