A revolution in thought

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Without a religious worldview to protect/promote, what possible motivation would one have for "wanting" the universe to work a certain way?

Why? Because no one wants war, that's why. We're all motivated to find answers to this serious problem; the only difference is that Lessans has found a solution.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

That's gotta be projection as it is completely backward for most of us in this thread and certainly for davidm. Science minded people want to discover, observe, and describe how the universe works...they ask the questions and search for the answers.

And you don't think Lessans fits that description? He was the most astute observer that anyone could be. Just because he didn't start out with a hypothesis didn't make him wrong. You would rather reject his observations because they didn't follow the "correct" scientific protocol, and be right, than admit the possibility that he may actually have a discovery, and be wrong.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Dogma embracing believer types think they have the answers, and try to make what is observed in reality fit those answers. Like you are doing with efferent vision. That's why you sound like a fundie Creationist.

I know that is what is sounds like, but I am not a fundie. I am very much like you in my desire to know the truth. You reject anything that smells of fake. I hate fake.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

and you're blaming Lessans because he observed something different. It's all his fault, right?

Originally Posted by LadyShea

There's no blame or fault, lol. This is histrionics.

I guess I am being histrionic. After seeing Lessans' discoveries go down the drain due to skepticism and arrogance, how am I supposed to act? Don't start giving me advice; that was a rhetorical question.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

There's no other explanation for your constant put downs every time you post. I only wish his knowledge was confirmed true in my lifetime (which I doubt). I'm sure I would get a lot of apologies.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

More arrogance and projection.

I am not being arrogant LadyShea just because I believe Lessans has a genuine scientific discovery. You would never ever tell Einstein that the people supporting him were histrionic or were projecting. Please don't respond, it will do us no good.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

davidm thinks you're a dissembling fanatic, so that's why he puts you down. It's very straightforward and he's been perfectly honest about it.

He has been relentless from day one after realizing that Lessans' discoveries were inconsistent with special relativity.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

He is not the one who fears for his fragile psyche because it is so tied to his worldview...that would be you.

Oh really? His psyche seems very fragile. Look over this thread and you will see that David is very protective of his beliefs.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Look at your last sentence, you basically just projected and gave us exactly the fear you are projecting! You fear Lessans was wrong so badly you are having little fantasies about "I'll show them then they'll be sorry"

I am not projecting. But no one has come up with an answer as to why we can't see objects from light without the object in view, therefore I don't think I'm wrong. I am trying to work with scientists on their terms. It's like "see no evil, hear no evil. Everyone is trying to make science fit into what they believe has already been proved. But mistakes can be made. Do you not get this LadyShea? If you can't even get this, what do you want from me?

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

I am making light drawing lens holes with apertures out of Cheerios and LifeSavers tomorrow. Then we'll see which fat lady eats pudding while telling time!

If you have an issue, please talk to the people who record their explanations in "how stuff works". As far as I have seen from their writing, a pinhole acts like a lens. I am not trying to trick everyone. Do you see how dangerous this is in terms of knowing the truth? It's so easy to conclude Lessans was wrong because of things left out:

HowStuffWorks "How does a pinhole camera work?"

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Because of the love of a certain individual (hint hint: Einstein) who is god in your eyes. Talk about faith? There is total faith in this man because he is considered god and whatever he says goes.

Peacegirl, if you ever actually sought help for your mental illness, and made some progress, you might look back on posts like these and be astonished at what a poster girl you are for Freudian projection.

The only one who has a God here is you. Einstein was no God, and nor do I love him. As a matter of fact -- and I first said this hundreds of pages ago, too, but your brain is so rotted with your father's nonsense you seem to lack memory, as well -- after relativity theory, poor old Einstein went off on wild goose chases that preoccupied him the rest of his life. He insisted that quantum theory was incomplete and even proposed experiments to show this. The experiments could not be carried out in his lifetime but when they were, they showed Einstein was wrong and quantum theory right. He also spent the rest of his life seeking a unified field theory, which is now widely believed to be unobtainable. So, no, Einstein was no god, he was fallible.

But, see, you can't grasp any of this, because you know nothing about science. You actually think science, and scientific theories, are like a popularity contest! Einstein is popular, so we vote for relativity theory; Lessans was uneducated so he must be wrong, so we vote against his theory. I mean, this is really what you think. It is a sign of your illness.

We don't accept relativity theory because we love or even like Einstein. We accept it because it comports with all observations that we have ever made of the world since he came up with it. By contrast, Lessans' claims fail to comport with ANY empirical evidence; they do not match ANY way, that the world is. So THAT is why we reject Lessans and go with Einstein. But it's too much to ask someone as brain-dead as you to understand this. You will go to your deathbed thinking Lessans was denied his due because he was "unpopular."

Pitiful.

[naturalist.atheist]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Do you see why I get upset? This is not what I call taking him seriously. It's making fun of him. You certainly wouldn't be doing this if he had someone of high esteem endorsing him.

Well yes it is very laughable. For a person to supposedly spend so much time with dictionaries and other sources and use words and ideas so poorly and yet claim to be so perfect is hilarious. If you had claimed that Lessans had never opened a book in his life, never went to school, never talked to anybody and just sat down and wrote his book, that would be far more impressive. He would still be wrong, but it would be remarkable that he managed to get anything right.

But by painting Lessans as a person with a good self education having used so many dictionaries and yet demonstrating such poor understanding of words, such a mistaken interpretation of basic scientific ideas all the while he praises his own abilities is fall down laughing ridiculous. It's as if he is deliberately making a mockery of himself, sort of the Andy Kaufman of anti-intellectual intellectuals.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by davidm

Peacegirl, if you ever actually sought help for your mental illness, and made some progress, you might look back on posts like these and be astonished at what a poster girl you are for Freudian projection.

The only one who has a God here is you. Einstein was no God, and nor do I love him.

You do love him David. You hold him up as a saint.

Originally Posted by davidm"

As a matter of fact -- and I first said this hundreds of pages ago, too, but your brain is so rotted with your father's nonsense you seem to lack memory, as well -- after relativity theory, poor old Einstein went off on wild goose chases that preoccupied him the rest of his life. He insisted that quantum theory was incomplete and even proposed experiments to show this. The experiments could not be carried out in his lifetime but when they were, they showed Einstein was wrong and quantum theory right. He also spent the rest of his life seeking a unified field theory, which is now widely believed to be unobtainable. So, no, Einstein was no god, he was fallible.

So please remember this when you think of Lessans, okay? Einstein made mistakes but not when it came to his discoveries. He was right and we appreciate him for this. His discoveries are a beacon to remind us what we can attain. But there is a lot yet to accomplish. Lessans might have made mistakes, just as Einstein did, but not when it came to his observations. I believe he was spot on. Do you understand that a discovery remains a discovery even if a person is no longer here? The fact that Einstein and Lessans seemed to be at odds with each other is causing a problem. This alone does not make Lessans wrong.

Originally Posted by davidm

But, see, you can't grasp any of this, because you know nothing about science. You actually think science, and scientific theories, are like a popularity contest! Einstein is popular, so we vote for relativity theory; Lessans was uneducated so he must be wrong, so we vote against his theory. I mean, this is really what you think. It is a sign of your illness.

That's what it feels like David. The premise proves the conclusion. And the premise isn't questioned because IT CAME FROM EINSTEIN.

Originally Posted by davidm"

We don't accept relativity theory because we love or even like Einstein. We accept it because it comports with all observations that we have ever made of the world since he came up with it. By contrast, Lessans' claims fail to comport with ANY empirical evidence; they do not match ANY way, that the world is. So THAT is why we reject Lessans and go with Einstein. But it's too much to ask someone as brain-dead as you to understand this. You will go to your deathbed thinking Lessans was denied his due because he was "unpopular."

Oh my god, you are speaking about yourself. You will go to your deathbed thinking Einstein had it all right. He gave you comfort, and for anyone to come alone and reject anything about your god could drive you into a psychotic episode.

Furthermore, comporting with empirical evidence is bullshit as far as I'm concerned when another observation wipes it out. You hate that this is happening because you thought Einstein had it all figured out. But he didn't. So could you be quiet for a change and listen instead of talk?

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Because of the love of a certain individual (hint hint: Einstein) who is god in your eyes. Talk about faith? There is total faith in this man because he is considered god and whatever he says goes.

Nobody here thinks Einstein was a god or godlike or infallible. Relativity Theory stands because it has proven to work time and time again under rigorous repeated testing.

As davidm alluded to, Einstein was somehow personally freaked out by what he saw coming out of Quantum theory, and he actively worked to refute it. In fact, he said “The more success the quantum theory has, the sillier it looks.”

Silly looking according to Einstein or not, QM works and I personally believe the big answers will come from that field. Ohnoes I am disagreeing with the beloved Saint Einstein.

More projection. You want us to be mindless followers of godmen because that's how you operate.

I am histrionic, but after my entire life seeing Lessans' discoveries go down the drain because of preconceived ideas, what else could I have done? Don't start telling me what I could have done, that was a rhetorical question, okay?

Quite blaming "preconceived ideas" and non-existent hero worship for your and Lessans failures to support his positions.

Lessans "discoveries" go down the drain because they do not fit with observed reality.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

It's only arrogance until Lessans is seen as Einstein.

He can't be seen as an Einstein because all Lessans did was make a lot of unsupported (and apparently unsupportable) assertions.

You would never ever tell Einstein that the people supporting him were histrionic. Please don't respond, it will do us no good.

Because people don't "support" Einstein as a God, they respect that one of his theories continues to describe reality and has proved useful in furthering human knowledge and creating new technologies.

Everyone knows who Edison was too, and considers him a very smart man and appreciate his contributions why? Is it because they "support" him? Revere him as a god?

Honesty isn't telling the truth?

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Oh really? Look over this thread and you will see that David is very protective of his beliefs. I have no desire to say more.

Projection

Originally Posted by peacegirl

No no, I do not project anything at all. I am not afraid to be wrong. But no one has explained what I have asked in response to their own experiments. I am trying to work with scientists every chance I get. It's like "see no evil, hear no evil. Everyone is trying to make science fit becasue it's already considered as fact. Do you not get this LadyShea? If you can't even get this, what do you want from me?

I want you to demonstrate an understanding of the science you are challenging. If you don't understand it, then your challenges are a religious position, just like Creationism. Don't you understand that?

And in order to become accepted fact, the science has to work, and work again, and continue to work. If it doesn't work, it is discarded. For every scientific theory that is considered accurate, there are dozens that failed. There are millions of discarded hypotheses in dusty old notebooks and computer files.

And lol @ "trying to work with scientists", you have argued with several in this thread and told them they are wrong, about the results of experiements and observation they have made themselves, and when you supposedly had information about Canadian scientists that seemed to agree with Lessans (and therefore may have had some evidentiary support for you) you didn't even bother to seek them out.

[Dragar]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Einstein made mistakes but not when it came to his discoveries.

Yes he did. He published a number of papers with the incorrect field equations for general relativity before he found the right ones.

His first calculation of the deflection of light by the Sun was off by a factor of 2 (leading to agreement with the Newtonian calculation - oops!).

He made plenty of mistakes. Fortunately, there were plenty of other people around to help him realise when and where he had gone wrong. Einstein was clever, but he did none of his work alone.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

You do love him David. You hold him up as a saint.

lol, you are so arrogant

Originally Posted by peacegirl

The fact that Einstein and Lessans seemed to be at odds with each other is causing a problem. This alone does not make Lessans wrong.

No, the complete failure for Lessans ideas to fit with reality makes him wrong

Originally Posted by peacegirl

That's what it feels like David. The premise proves the conclusion. And the premise isn't questioned because IT CAME FROM EINSTEIN.

The premise is and has been questioned, yet every time it is questioned it remains standing on its merits. Relativity theory works.

You seem to actually hate scientific methodology. Why?

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Oh my god, you are speaking about yourself. You will go to your deathbed thinking Einstein had it all right. He gave you comfort, and for anyone to come alone and reject anything about your god could drive you into a psychotic episode.

Furthermore, comporting with empirical evidence is bullshit as far as I'm concerned when another observation wipes it out. You hate that this is happening because you thought Einstein had it all figured out. But he didn't. So could you be quiet for a change and listen instead of talk? I doubt it.

lol, religious fanatic projecting again

[davidm]

Originally Posted by Dragar

Yes he did. He published a number of papers with the incorrect field equations for general relativity before he found the right ones.

His first calculation of the deflection of light by the Sun was off by a factor of 2 (leading to agreement with the Newtonian calculation - oops!).

He made plenty of mistakes. Fortunately, there were plenty of other people around to help him realise when and where he had gone wrong. Einstein was clever, but he did none of his work alone.

Not only did he not work alone, he built upon previous work; his discoveries would have been impossible without key discoveries of the nature of light and electromagnetic fields in the 19th century.

Lessans, by contrast, knew nothing of the fields he proposed to wade into and pronounce upon; he actually wrote that scientists thought seeing was afferent because Aristotle said so! He was wholly oblivious to all the discoveries not just in physics but in biology that rendered his "efferent seeing" moot even as he was advocating it. Maybe he should have stayed in school.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

You do love him David. You hold him up as a saint.

LOL, you are so brain-dead you think everyone thinks like you. Science is a mater of personalities. Stupid girl. What about the fact that relativity theory has been verified by innumerable empirical tests and observations since he proposed it? That means nothing to you, does it?

Originally Posted by davidm"

So please remember this when you think of Lessans, okay? Einstein made mistakes but not when it came to his discoveries.

Thanks! Although he did make mistakes, you agree his discoveries were correct; since his discoveries contradict Lessans, you agree Lessans is wrong. Glad we cleared that up after some 550 pages! Whew!

Lessans might have made mistakes, just as Einstein did, but not when it came to his observations.

Oops, you just contradicted yourself! If Lessans was right relativity theory is wrong. Q. E. D.

I believe he was spot on.

You probably believe in Santa Claus.

Do you understand that a discovery remains a discovery even if a person is no longer here? The fact that Einstein and Lessans seemed to be at odds with each other is causing a problem. This alone does not make Lessans wrong.

There you go with the personalities again. It's not Einstein vs. Lessans. It's relativity theory vs. Lessans' claims. Relativity theory matches reality, Lessans claims fail to do so. That's it.

Originally Posted by davidm

That's what it feels like David. The premise proves the conclusion. And the premise isn't questioned because IT CAME FROM EINSTEIN.

There you go again, you little Godbot, thinking that we think like you. So sorry, no matter how many times you parrot this drivel, it's got nothing to do with Einstein. It's got to do with the fact that his theories match reality, and Lessans' bullshit fails to do so. That's it.

Originally Posted by davidm"

Oh my god, you are speaking about yourself. You will go to your deathbed thinking Einstein had it all right.

You really have lost your short-term memory, haven't you? Did you even read, or retain, the stuff I explained that Einstein got wrong?

He gave you comfort, and for anyone to come alone and reject anything about your god could drive you into a psychotic episode.

There's your embarassing Freudian projection kicking in again. The idea that Lessans, your father, is an infallible God gives you comfort. For the rest of us, we couldn't care less how reality actually is. A psychotic episode? What an arrogant little ignoramus. Did you even read, or retain, my comments about the thread that is active right here, in the Science Forum, about the preliminary finding that some neturinos traveled faster than light? If this turns out to be true, relativity theory will have to be modified if not eventually scrapped. Do you see me, or anyone else, throwing a tantrum in that thread, at this prospect? On the contrary, we are thrilled by it. Wrong again, you are!

Furthermore, comporting with empirical evidence is bullshit as far as I'm concerned when another observation wipes it out.

WHAT OBSERVATION? NAME IT!

You haven't answered this question in 550 pages, because there was NO observation!

[naturalist.atheist]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

You're just really peeved because you want the universe to work a certain way, and you're blaming Lessans because he observed something different. It's all his fault, right? There's no other explanation for your constant put downs every time you post. I only wish his knowledge was confirmed true in my lifetime (which I doubt). I'm sure I would get a lot of apologies.

It looks like a persecution complex plays a prominent role in peacegirls delusion.

[davidm]

As it does in her father's delusions. His writing is full of attacks on scientists, with phrases like, "These scientists will tell you that..." and then he goes on in finger-wagging prose to set those scientists straight, even while wandering unintentionally into the minefields of bufoonery and ending up hoist by his own petard. It's kind of funny and sad at the same time.

[LadyShea]

Oh the persecution complex is strong in this one, N.A.

With Lessans it manifested as mountains of the bitterest butthurt and suing the POTUS and calling authors to berate them. With peacegirl it's more classical "You random Internet people want to burn me alive on a cross stood in boiling oil but I will be vindicated!"

[davidm]

Ah, yes, memories! Of the first time I read that passage, what a belly laugh! He sued President Carter for failing to meet with him to learn how to bring about Total World Peace!

[davidm]

It's funny how she accuses me of worshiping Einstein, when of course it's she who worships Lessans. Einstein got QM wrong and so we pay no attention to him on that score (even though he was one of the founders of quantum theory). When he came up with his famous "god does not play dice" objection to the apparent indeterminism of QM one of his colleagues, maybe Bohr I think, told him in exasparation: "Stop telling God what to do, Einstein!" In other words, fuck off.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by davidm

Peacegirl, if you ever actually sought help for your mental illness, and made some progress, you might look back on posts like these and be astonished at what a poster girl you are for Freudian projection.

The only one who has a God here is you. Einstein was no God, and nor do I love him. As a matter of fact -- and I first said this hundreds of pages ago, too, but your brain is so rotted with your father's nonsense you seem to lack memory, as well -- after relativity theory, poor old Einstein went off on wild goose chases that preoccupied him the rest of his life. He insisted that quantum theory was incomplete and even proposed experiments to show this. The experiments could not be carried out in his lifetime but when they were, they showed Einstein was wrong and quantum theory right. He also spent the rest of his life seeking a unified field theory, which is now widely believed to be unobtainable. So, no, Einstein was no god, he was fallible.

But, see, you can't grasp any of this, because you know nothing about science. You actually think science, and scientific theories, are like a popularity contest! Einstein is popular, so we vote for relativity theory; Lessans was uneducated so he must be wrong, so we vote against his theory. I mean, this is really what you think. It is a sign of your illness.

We don't accept relativity theory because we love or even like Einstein. We accept it because it comports with all observations that we have ever made of the world since he came up with it. By contrast, Lessans' claims fail to comport with ANY empirical evidence; they do not match ANY way, that the world is. So THAT is why we reject Lessans and go with Einstein. But it's too much to ask someone as brain-dead as you to understand this. You will go to your deathbed thinking Lessans was denied his due because he was "unpopular."

Pitiful.

You love the idea of eternalism and relativism. You even said that this is what you want to do your research in. So don't tell me you don't have an emotional attachment to these theories. You'll fight tooth and nail to defend your worldview unless someone as renowned as Stephen Hawking would tell you to stop being so closed minded.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by davidm

It's funny how she accuses me of worshiping Einstein, when of course it's she who worships Lessans. Einstein got QM wrong and so we pay no attention to him on that score (even though he was one of the founders of quantum theory). When he came up with his famous "god does not play dice" objection to the apparent indeterminism of QM one of his colleagues, maybe Bohr I think, told him in exasparation: "Stop telling God what to do, Einstein!" In other words, fuck off.

That's funny because Einstein was right; god doesn't play dice, and his legitimate objection to the indeterminism of QM was valid.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

That's funny because Einstein was right; god doesn't play dice, and his legitimate objection to the indeterminism of QM was valid.

Do tell us when and where your seminars on quantum physics will be, peacegirl, I'm sure none of us will want to miss the belly laughs!

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by naturalist.atheist

Well yes it is very laughable. For a person to supposedly spend so much time with dictionaries and other sources and use words and ideas so poorly and yet claim to be so perfect is hilarious. If you had claimed that Lessans had never opened a book in his life, never went to school, never talked to anybody and just sat down and wrote his book, that would be far more impressive. He would still be wrong, but it would be remarkable that he managed to get anything right.

But by painting Lessans as a person with a good self education having used so many dictionaries and yet demonstrating such poor understanding of words, such a mistaken interpretation of basic scientific ideas all the while he praises his own abilities is fall down laughing ridiculous. It's as if he is deliberately making a mockery of himself, sort of the Andy Kaufman of anti-intellectual intellectuals.

You never answered me natural.atheist. What is his first discovery about? If you can't answer this simple question, then please cease and desist.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by davidm

Do tell us when and where your seminars on quantum physics will be, peacegirl, I'm sure none of us will want to miss the belly laughs!

There is no such thing as indeterminism. That's all I have to say on the subject of QM.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

You love the idea of eternalism and relativism. You even said that this is what you want to do your research in. So don't tell me you don't have an emotional attachment to these theories. You'll fight tooth and nail to defend your worldview unless someone as renowned as Stephen Hawking would tell you to stop being so closed minded.

Er, my research in? Where did I say that, O peacegirl? I'm not even a scientist!

No, I have no emotional attachment to any theory. You can't conceive that in anyone else because you think everyone has your mentality, your God worship for the clod Lessans.

Finally relativity is not relativism you idiot. I suppose you're one of those people who think Einstein offered a theory of relativism, meaning that "anything goes." Uh, NO.

In fact, Einstein wanted to call the theory of relativity the theory of invariance. But by the time he wanted to do this, the word "relativity" was too entrenched.

Gosh, you are dumb. Don't you ever get tired of parading it?

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

There is no such thing as indeterminism. That's all I have to say on the subject of QM.

That's ALL you have to say? Translation: "Get ready for a 500-page thread on QM in which I will parade my ignorance on that subject, too."

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

It's not a matter of faith. It's a matter of more empirical testing. That's what I meant by time will tell.

Your entire argument has been: "Despite the fact that none of the empirical data provided so far supports Lessans' claims, I'm convinced that he's right; despite the fact that all of the empirical data so far collected flatly contradicts Lessans' claims, I'm nonetheless convinced that he's right."

A more straightforward example of an entirely faith-based belief system would be difficult to imagine.

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

He has been relentless from day one after realizing that Lessans' discoveries were inconsistent with special relativity.

Numerous people have explained to you -- in some detail -- exactly why Lessans' claims are inconsistent with Special Relativity. Are you now admitting that Lessans' claims and Special Relativity cannot both be true?

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Nobody here thinks Einstein was a god or godlike or infallible. Relativity Theory stands because it has proven to work time and time again under rigorous repeated testing.

As davidm alluded to, Einstein was somehow personally freaked out by what he saw coming out of Quantum theory, and he actively worked to refute it. In fact, he said “The more success the quantum theory has, the sillier it looks.”

Silly looking according to Einstein or not, QM works and I personally believe the big answers will come from that field. Ohnoes I am disagreeing with the beloved Saint Einstein.

Just as you believe the answers to the deeper questions of life can only come from appointed fields.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

That's gotta be projection as it is completely backward for most of us in this thread and certainly for davidm. Science minded people want to discover, observe, and describe how the universe works...they ask the questions and search for the answers.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I don't even question that but the problem is the premise that comes from god himself. Einstein.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

More projection. You want us to be mindless followers of godmen because that's how you operate.

That's the only thing I can come up with after seeing David's devotion to you know who.

I am histrionic, but after my entire life seeing Lessans' discoveries go down the drain because of preconceived ideas, what else could I have done? Don't start telling me what I could have done, that was a rhetorical question, okay?

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Quite blaming "preconceived ideas" and non-existent hero worship for your and Lessans failures to support his positions.

Lessans "discoveries" go down the drain because they do not fit with observed reality.

How can they fit with observed reality, when the discoveries are meant to change observed reality. You don't know what you're talking about as usual.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

It's only arrogance until Lessans is seen as Einstein.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

He can't be seen as an Einstein because all Lessans did was make a lot of unsupported (and apparently unsupportable) assertions.

It's very odd that you clump together all of his discoveries when he has made 3. You're synopsis of his first discovery was so incomplete, you have no room to criticize anything he's written as if you're an authority.

You would never ever tell Einstein that the people supporting him were histrionic. Please don't respond, it will do us no good.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Because people don't "support" Einstein as a God, they respect that one of his theories continues to describe reality and has proved useful in furthering human knowledge and creating new technologies.

Efferent vision does not remove any of the successful technologies that are dependent on Einstein's theories.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Everyone knows who Edison was too, and considers him a very smart man and appreciate his contributions why? Is it because they "support" him? Revere him as a god?

Einstein has been revered as the smartest man in all of history, that's why. The mere mention of his name brings a feeling of respect and awe at such intelligence. Now they even have baby Einstein products as a marketing ploy.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

davidm thinks you're a dissembling fanatic, so that's why he puts you down. It's very straightforward and he's been perfectly honest about it.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

That's cool that he has been honest about it, but it doesn't mean that his honesty tells the truth.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Honesty isn't telling the truth?

His apparent honesty belies the dishonesty that's beneath the surface.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Oh really? Look over this thread and you will see that David is very protective of his beliefs. I have no desire to say more.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Projection

Originally Posted by peacegirl

No no, I do not project anything. I am not afraid to be wrong. But no one has explained what I have asked in response to their own experiments. I am trying to work with scientists every chance I get. It's like "see no evil, hear no evil. Everyone is trying to make science fit becasue it's already considered as fact. Do you not get this LadyShea? If you can't even get this, what do you want from me?

Originally Posted by LadyShea

I want you to demonstrate an understanding of the science you are challenging. If you don't understand it, then your challenges are a religious position, just like Creationism. Don't you understand that?

And in order to become accepted fact, the science has to work, and work again, and continue to work. If it doesn't work, it is discarded. For every scientific theory that is considered accurate, there are dozens that failed. There are millions of discarded hypotheses in dusty old notebooks and computer files.

I know that, but this is not one of them. He discovered a natural law. Natural laws are universal laws that don't change with time. There are no exceptions.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

And lol @ "trying to work with scientists", you have argued with several in this thread and told them they are wrong, about the results of experiements and observation they have made themselves, and when you supposedly had information about Canadian scientists that seemed to agree with Lessans (and therefore may have had some evidentiary support for you) you didn't even bother to seek them out.

No, it wasn't my job. At 16 I couldn't go traipsing to Canada, or jumping hoops to find out who these people were. You're still on that? Seriously, being scientifically inclined is one thing. Being skeptical, paranoid, and distrustful of everybody's motivations is quite another. You're right on the edge.