A revolution in thought

[davidm]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

Oh me oh my! Large swaths of the "Our Posterity" chapter are available here courtesy of Google Books. Just click on the link and go to page 471. I don't want to spoil anything, so for now suffice it to say

Found! The Hidden Writings of Seymour Lessans!

From The Great Man’z Secret, Esoteric Writings!

“Do you mean that I lived through every period of history?”

“Yes you did, only, of course, you don’t know who you were or whether you were a male or a female.”

“This is just too fantastic. In other words, once it is understood that man’s will is not free and what this means, our people, the Jews, cannot blame Hitler for slaughtering 6 million of us, nor can we feel sorry for the dead because we are not dead?”

[peacegirl]

[quote=davidm;959518]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

Oh me oh my! Large swaths of the "Our Posterity" chapter are available here courtesy of Google Books. Just click on the link and go to page 471. I don't want to spoil anything, so for now suffice it to say

Found! The Hidden Writings of Seymour Lessans!

From The Great Man’z Secret, Esoteric Writings!

“Do you mean that I lived through every period of history?”

“Yes you did, only, of course, you don’t know who you were or whether you were a male or a female.”

“This is just too fantastic. In other words, once it is understood that man’s will is not free and what this means, our people, the Jews, cannot blame Hitler for slaughtering 6 million of us, nor can we feel sorry for the dead because we are not dead?”

Your brain is too shrunken from all those drugs to absorb the truth.

Originally Posted by davidm

Who, in his right mind or with knowledge of history would believe
it possible that the 20th century will be the time when all war, crime,
and every form of evil or hurt in human relations must come to a
permanent end? [Note: This is a reminder that the author lived in the
20th century. Though we are well into the 21st century, this discovery
has yet to be given a thorough investigation by our world’s leading
scientists]. When first hearing this prophesy, shortly after Hitler had
slaughtered 6 million Jews, I laughed with contempt because nothing
appeared more ridiculous than such a statement. But after 15 years
(8 hours a day) of extensive reading and thinking, my dissatisfaction
with a certain theory that had gotten a dogmatic hold on the mind
compelled me to spend nine strenuous months in the deepest analysis,
and I made a finding that was so difficult to believe it took me two
years to thoroughly understand its full significance for all mankind
and three additional years to put it into the kind of language others
could comprehend.

It is the purpose of this book to reveal this
finding — a scientific discovery about the nature of man whose life,
as a direct consequence of this mathematical revelation, will be
completely revolutionized in every way for his benefit bringing about
a transition so utterly amazing that if I were to tell you of all the
changes soon to unfold, without demonstrating the cause as to why
these must come about, your skepticism would be aroused sufficiently
to consider this a work of science fiction, for who would believe it
possible that all evil (every bit of hurt that exists in human relation)
must decline and fall the very moment this discovery is thoroughly
understood.

You obviously understand zilch. Do you know what zilch means? Nadaaaaaaaaaa.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

You obviously understand zilch. Do you know what zilch means? Nadaaaaaaaaaa.

Sez the fucking idiot who, after 300 pages, can't even figure out how to use quote tags!



Hey, Peacegirl, how is it possible for real-time seeing to be compatible with special relativity, when a postulate of special relativity is that the speed of light is invariant and finite across all inertial frames, and that light transmits information to the eyes that is then transduced to the brain for interpretation? Hmm?



Oh, and, Peacegirl? How is it possible for the reflected light of your neighbor to arrive eight and a half minutes after the reflected light of the moon, when God turns on the sun? How's that possible, idiot? Hmm?



Hey, peaceigirl? What is a lens, and how and why did it evolve? What do you think the eye's lenses do, hmm?



Hey, peacegirl? How's it possible for the eye to be an efferent organ when we know that its structure and function is afferent and cannot be efferent? Hmm?



Asshat!





So now we discover that the Jews are to blame for the Holocaust! Priceless shit from your crack-brained Daddy and the chip off the old blockhead that is his mentally deranged daughter.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by davidm

Sez the fucking idiot who, after 300 pages, can't even figure out how to use quote tags!



Hey, Peacegirl, how is it possible for real-time seeing to be compatible with special relativity, when a postulate of special relativity is that the speed of light is invariant and finite across all inertial frames, and that light transmits information to the eyes that is then transduced to the brain for interpretation? Hmm?



Oh, and, Peacegirl? How is it possible for the reflected light of your neighbor to arrive eight and a half minutes after the reflected light of the moon, when God turns on the sun? How's that possible, idiot? Hmm?



Hey, peaceigirl? What is a lens, and how and why did it evolve? What do you think the eye's lenses do, hmm?



Hey, peacegirl? How's it possible for the eye to be an efferent organ when we know that its structure and function is afferent and cannot be efferent? Hmm?



Asshat!





So now we discover that the Jews are to blame for the Holocaust! Priceless shit from your crack-brained Daddy and the chip off the old blockhead that is his mentally deranged daughter.

I'm a Jew you idiot. Back on ignore, I can't take more than one post from you.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I'm a Jew you idiot.

So you're a Jew. So what? You and your idiot daddy believe that Hitler was not to blame for the Holocaust; indeed by his own reasoning, it was the Jews who were to blame, because they blamed Hitler! Had they not blamed or condemned him, he would not have killed them!

Self-hating Jew much, peacegirl?

Hey, peacegirl, when you are going to answer the questions that I have repeatedly put to you? Can't answer them, eh?

Back on ignore, I can't take more than one post from you.

Are you honestly so self-deluded that you think anyone gives a shit if you put him or her on Ignore?

[Stephen Maturin]

From the previously hidden but now revealed portions of the Sacred Text, behold one of the finest, 100% nonreligious fake conversations of all time:

"Do you mean that I lived through every period of history?"

"Yes you did, only, of course, you don't know who you were or whether you were a male or a female."

"This is just too fantastic. In other words, once it is understood that man's will is not free and what this means, our people, the Jews, cannot blame Hitler for slaughtering 6 million of us, nor can we feel sorry for the dead because we are not dead?"

"You must remember that anybody living who lost someone loved in this carnage will never get over it. However, when he fully realizes that all evil came into existence because God needed it to develop mankind, and now that we are developed it will be forthwith removed, he won't ever be able to blame another because there won't be anything left to blame. It might take 2000 years for this knowledge to come to light because it may blind those who have been looking for a different type of solution, something in accordance with their own opinion. It was the same thing that gave Mendel posthumous recognition. In our Golden Age, the inception of which will take place as soon as this discovery is confirmed valid by our world leaders, we will fall mutually in love, raise our families in complete health, security, wealth and happiness, live to a ripe old age without overpopulating the earth, and die only to be born for the same happiness again and again. Well, isn't this the most wonderful knowledge to behold? God has the whole world in His hands, and what wonderful hands they are! Is God a reality and is He good? You bet your life He is."

"It is just too unbelievable, and I just feel like crying for sheer happiness."

"So will all mankind, once everything sinks in."

'Scuse me while I spend some time roffling on the floor out loud while rolling. In the meantime, check out what happens when one of the imaginary conversants asks how he can help bring all this glory into being:

"Gosh, I certainly wish there was something I could do to get this Golden Age started in a hurry. After all, if this isn't explained carefully, they'll call me a crackpot, right?"

"They will, so be careful. But remember, they will not call you anything once the principles are understood. Until then, however, there are risks that (I (you, too) have to take. My only hope is that no one will jump to conclusions until they read thoroughly what I have written; then I don't care how much they jump because they will be prevented providing - it must constantly be qualified - they understand mathematical relations. Now it is time to move on to my final chapter, but before you go I want you to remember this; no matter how long it takes for this new world to begin, YOU WILL BE THERE."

Seymour closes by admonishing his imaginary conversant, "As always, don't thank me ... thank God."



Oh my, where to begin? First off, Jews need to stfu about the goddamn Holocaust already because it was God's will and an entirely necessary component of His divine plan to prepare man for the Golden Age.

I didn't really need any further confirmation that ol' Seymour and peacegirl were lying through their teeth in claiming that Lessans was using "God" as a synonym for "nature's laws," but the above excerpt provide further confirmation in spades.

The dispensationalism is a nice touch, as is ol' Seymour tacitly comparing himself to Jesus, who was rejected by the Jews, "those who have been looking for a different type of [Messiah], something in accordance with their own opinion."

I like the summary description of the Golden Age, except that he left out the part about there being fewer fat chicks and homos.

Also, we get additional confirmation that Seymour himself is the source of peacegirl's martyrdom complex. How does she "know" people are jumping to conclusions without reading the book thoroughly? Because Seymour said! Why would anyone reject this crap? Certainly not because the book is itself deeply flawed. To the contrary, the book is perfect, given to the world by God Himself! The only tenable explanations for rejection are that the reader isn't being thorough enough or the reader can't perceive mathematical relations. Why? Because Seymour said.

So soldier on, faithful acolyte. Let them call you a crackpot. You can take comfort in knowing that you're right and they're wrong. And you will have your 100% nonreligious reward when you are born again in the Golden Age.

Seymour said.

[Vivisectus]

No wonder it felt like talking to a fundamentalist. Nothing in reality can compete with the cozy certainty of a perfect life in heaven. No logic can penetrate the steel walls of perceived self-interest. What does science have to offer except for uncertainties, when the rock-hard certainties of delusion require no understanding, no doubt, no effort at all?

And to be the Daughter of the Son of God! What heady stuff! What an intoxicating position in the new wonderful world where you won't just be exempt from having to suffer the indignities of everyday life, but where you will be next in line to the Fount of Wisdom itself! His first and foremost Apostle!

There is no reason, no logic, no argument, no rebuttal, not a single solitary thing I could say or do that could possibly compete with that.

Even if not a word of it is true. If people feel they have something to gain by believing it, they will fight anyone who tries to tell them otherwise. Even if it is patent nonsense.

Peacegirl, do me a favor. Google "Ronald Weinland" for me, and have a look. This man promises the promised land as well.

[Henry Quirk]

"Henry, What do you think?"

I think (like every one) PG is gonna do exactly what she wants to.

In her case: promoting, to hell and back, the book despite any and all stated distaste for the work or for the person.

If she draws comfort believing I'll be swayed to her (or any one's) side: then, let her.

Cold (illusionary) comfort is still comfort...ask any religionist (Christian, Jew, Muslim, Atheist, etc.; Republican, Democrat, Independent, Libertarian, etc.).
She should keep in mind, however: the signature line at the bottom of my posts is not a random selection.

There are loads of different kinds of hooey in the world: PG found hers...other than making clear I want no part of it (especially on her terms!), I can't see much point in continuing to poke her with a sharp stick.

For me, at least: there's no friggin' profit.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Doc dear, what led me to my hysteria is you precious One. You are ruining it for me and for Lessans due to your never ending ignorance. You are so incoherent that anyone with any aptitude at all would look at you like a total jerk. But lo and behold, the group stands together come near or come far. Dammm the people in here who think they are the gatekeepers of truth. Whether or not you see this truth, this is a tribute to Lessans who will one day be honored with stripes.

Calmed right down, sort of, how many Valium did that take?

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Henry Quirk

"Henry, What do you think?"
I can't see much point in continuing to poke her with a sharp stick.

She dances funny?

[davidm]

Also, I'm sure we are all dying to know how when "you" die, "you" become "someone else," even though nothing is reincarnated (no "soul" passes from you to the next person, for instance.)

That is an interesting idea. Wayne Stewart wrote a whole book pushing it, Tom Clark at naturalist. org believes it and another philosopher, Mark Sharlow, has bobbed the idea about.

Thing is, though, when I asked Wayne Stewart a few questions about this idea at the old Dawkins forum, and pointed out some inconsistencies in his metaphysics, he proved really good at throwing a prolonged hissy fit and calling me a lot of names, and basically accusing me of not understanding his genius. Hey, maybe peacegirl ought to look this guy up!

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

No wonder it felt like talking to a fundamentalist.
.

I would think most other fundamentalists would be a bit more sane and rational.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by davidm

Thing is, though, when I asked Wayne Stewart a few questions about this idea at the old Dawkins forum, and pointed out some inconsistencies in his metaphysics, he proved really good at throwing a prolonged hissy fit and calling me a lot of names, and basically accusing me of not understanding his genius. Hey, maybe peacegirl ought to look this guy up!

Then you should feel right at home here with Peacegirl. Do you like that sort of thing?

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by davidm

So you're a Jew. So what? You and your idiot daddy believe that Hitler was not to blame for the Holocaust; indeed by his own reasoning, it was the Jews who were to blame, because they blamed Hitler! Had they not blamed or condemned him, he would not have killed them!

Self-hating Jew much, peacegirl?

You're coo coo David!

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Henry Quirk

"Henry, What do you think?"
For me, at least: there's no friggin' profit.

Ahhh, then you missed the prophet.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Henry Quirk

"Henry, What do you think?"

I think (like every one) PG is gonna do exactly what she wants to.

In her case: promoting, to hell and back, the book despite any and all stated distaste for the work or for the person.

If she draws comfort believing I'll be swayed to her (or any one's) side: then, let her.

Cold (illusionary) comfort is still comfort...ask any religionist (Christian, Jew, Muslim, Atheist, etc.; Republican, Democrat, Independent, Libertarian, etc.).
She should keep in mind, however: the signature line at the bottom of my posts is not a random selection.

There are loads of different kinds of hooey in the world: PG found hers...other than making clear I want no part of it (especially on her terms!), I can't see much point in continuing to poke her with a sharp stick.

For me, at least: there's no friggin' profit.

That's a pretty sane response next to all the others.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

That's a pretty sane response next to all the others.

I would expect that from Henry.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

No wonder it felt like talking to a fundamentalist. Nothing in reality can compete with the cozy certainty of a perfect life in heaven. No logic can penetrate the steel walls of perceived self-interest.

What self-interest Vivisectus? I'm not here for my benefit.

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

What does science have to offer except for uncertainties, when the rock-hard certainties of delusion require no understanding, no doubt, no effort at all?

Funny but sad. No understanding, no doubt? There is no rock-hard certainy of delusion. There's just rock-hard certainty.

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

And to be the Daughter of the Son of God! What heady stuff! What an intoxicating position in the new wonderful world where you won't just be exempt from having to suffer the indignities of everyday life, but where you will be next in line to the Fount of Wisdom itself! His first and foremost Apostle!

And you could be third in line if you just gave up the attitude.

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

There is no reason, no logic, no argument, no rebuttal, not a single solitary thing I could say or do that could possibly compete with that.

Because you don't have a rebuttal that's worth its salt. That's why you can't compete. You really will like the new world, I promise.

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

Even if not a word of it is true. If people feel they have something to gain by believing it, they will fight anyone who tries to tell them otherwise. Even if it is patent nonsense.

I'm not fighting you; you're fighting me.

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

Peacegirl, do me a favor. Google "Ronald Weinland" for me, and have a look. This man promises the promised land as well.

Your wish is my command! I just checked him out. How can you compare him to Lessans?

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Funny but sad. No understanding, no doubt? There is no rock-hard certainy of delusion. There's just rock-hard certainty.

So sez the idiot.

Because you don't have a rebuttal that's worth its salt. That's why you can't compete. You really will like the new world, I promise.

So sez the fucking idiot. This garbage has been refuted hundreds of times.

Hey, peacegirl, what's a lens for?

There is one refutation of efferent seeing right there, among literally hundreds of them scattered throughout this thread.



Idiot.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

From the previously hidden but now revealed portions of the Sacred Text, behold one of the finest, 100% nonreligious fake conversations of all time:

'Scuse me while I spend some time roffling on the floor out loud while rolling. In the meantime, check out what happens when one of the imaginary conversants asks how he can help bring all this glory into being:

Seymour closes by admonishing his imaginary conversant, "As always, don't thank me ... thank God."



Oh my, where to begin? First off, Jews need to stfu about the goddamn Holocaust already because it was God's will and an entirely necessary component of His divine plan to prepare man for the Golden Age.

I didn't really need any further confirmation that ol' Seymour and peacegirl were lying through their teeth in claiming that Lessans was using "God" as a synonym for "nature's laws," but the above excerpt provide further confirmation in spades.

The dispensationalism is a nice touch, as is ol' Seymour tacitly comparing himself to Jesus, who was rejected by the Jews, "those who have been looking for a different type of [Messiah], something in accordance with their own opinion."

I like the summary description of the Golden Age, except that he left out the part about there being fewer fat chicks and homos.

Also, we get additional confirmation that Seymour himself is the source of peacegirl's martyrdom complex. How does she "know" people are jumping to conclusions without reading the book thoroughly? Because Seymour said! Why would anyone reject this crap? Certainly not because the book is itself deeply flawed. To the contrary, the book is perfect, given to the world by God Himself! The only tenable explanations for rejection are that the reader isn't being thorough enough or the reader can't perceive mathematical relations. Why? Because Seymour said.

So soldier on, faithful acolyte. Let them call you a crackpot. You can take comfort in knowing that you're right and they're wrong. And you will have your 100% nonreligious reward when you are born again in the Golden Age.

Seymour said.

I will say, once again, that you are the most jaded dude in here, aside from David. It would be different if you were funny and mean, but you're just the garden variety mean. And people are applauding you, as if to say your complete and utter degradation of this book is an accurate rendition when it's the most assinine thing I've ever read. You have definitely lived up to being a total son of a bitch, and nuts. You need help Stephen (I'm being serious) to find out why you get your jollies by being so cruel. You can't be a happy person and this vitriolic. Maybe being a lawyer has made you the cynical, nasty, hateful person you are. I hope you don't end up being a lonely old man (it wouldn't surprise me), but that's where you're headed. Laugh if you will, but the last laugh will be on you. The rest of you are just sheep following the herd. I have done a disservice to everyone in here by introducing you to this work. It's now time to rewind; get the book out of your mind, and forget that I was ever here. You'll be glad you did.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I will say, once again, that you are the most jaded person in here, aside from David. It would be different if you were funny and mean, but you're just the garden variety mean. And people are applauding you, like you found out something about Lessans that that nobody knew. Very strange indeed. You're all sheep following the herd. I have done a disservice to everyone by introducing this major work. It's time to rewind; get this book out of your mind, and forget that I was ever here. You'll be glad you did.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by thedoc

Then you should feel right at home here with Peacegirl. Do you like that sort of thing?

Reading over Lessans' stuff on death and consciousness, it's exactly the argument that Wayne Stewart makes. I find this claim, which Stewart calls "existential passage," to be interesting on a number of levels, because it touches on the philosophy of personal identity, the philosophy of mind and consciousness, and the philosophy of time. It was that discussion I hoped to have had with Stewart, who, alas, proved unable or unwilling to do so.

It remains the case, though, that this claim of "existntial passage" is a good starting point for philosophical discussion. It'd be a discussion worth having, but I don't think in this thread.

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I will say, once again, that you are the most jaded dude in here, aside from David.

Unsurprisingly, that's not true. You said I was jaded for judging Vanilla Ice. I recall nothing about being the most jaded here. You did say I'm the biggest son of a bitch you've ever encountered. Now you're saying that David is more jaded! Talk about playing both sides of the fence. Damn, you are fickle!

Originally Posted by peacegirl

It would be different if you were funny and mean, but you're just the garden variety mean.

There's nothing like a touch of garden-fresh mean to spice up the bunkum-bashing, eh?

Originally Posted by peacegirl

And people are applauding you, as if to say your complete and utter degradation of this book is accurate when it's the most assinine [sic] thing I've ever read.

That can't possibly be true, seeing as how you've read The Sacred Text.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

You have definitely lived up to being a total son of a bitch, and nuts.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

You need help Stephen (I'm serious) to find out why you get your rocks off by being so cruel.

Speaking of getting one's rocks off, do you concur with Lessans that "boys and girls" fucking "very young" is a desirable component of the Golden Age? I bet you do.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

You can't be a happy person and this vitriolic.

"This vitriolic"? Oh my, I'm only warming up.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Maybe being a lawyer has made you the cynical, nasty, hateful person you are.

lol Just the other day I wept over the paucity of broke-dick wannabe psychologists on the Internet. Today, all's well.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I hope you don't end up being a lonely old man (I wouldn't be surprised), but that's where you're headed.

I liked the original version of that parenthetical much better, the one in which you said you do hope I end up a lonely old man because it would be "sweet revenge" for you. So much for "Thou Shalt Not Blame."

Anyhow, what does it matter? Regardless of what a shitball I am in this life or how lonely I become, I'll be reborn into the full glory that is the Golden Age with no memory of what happened here. Just like you. Right?

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I have done a disservice to everyone in here by introducing you to this work.

At last, a statement on which we agree. After all, as far as I'm aware no one from has ever gone to your home, dropped trou and taken a large, steaming, stinking, noisy dump in the middle of your living room. That's kinda what you did here.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

It's now time to rewind; get the book out of your mind, and forget that I was ever here. You'll be glad you did.

Again? You've proven time and time again that you have all the self-discipline of a rutting hog, so yeah, see ya in a couple of hours.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

Unsurprisingly, that's not true. You said I was jaded for judging Vanilla Ice. I recall nothing about being the most jaded here. You did say I'm the biggest son of a bitch you've ever encountered. Now you're saying that David is more jaded! Talk about playing both sides of the fence. Damn, you are fickle!

Eat your heart out, Maturin.

[LadyShea]

It's now time to rewind; get the book out of your mind, and forget that I was ever here. You'll be glad you did.

No. You're not the boss.

Just do whatever you feel the need to, peacegirl. Stay, leave, continue saying you are leaving but really stay...you are welcome to stay or you are welcome to GTFO.