A revolution in thought

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by ChuckF

Have you ever noticed how much you write in vapid clichés and platitudes?

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

I have pointed it out to her quite a bit. Lessans did the same thing, and peacegirl uses many of the same platitudes he did..like "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" is some kind of argument. Probably because she doesn't have anything to say. Really not that much out of place.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating means that only if there is success does the knowledge actually count.

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

You should have said so right from the start! We could have sorted this right there and then. The revolution never happened despite being predicted as a mathematical certainty. Pudding-time has been and gone.

It hasn't even started Vivisectus, so how can pudding-time be gone?

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

But even apart from that this is a wonderful piece of circle-reasoning. You are saying that the proof of this system can be found by implementing it and making it work - only if there is success does the knowledge count, or work.

That means that what you are really saying is that once we solve the problem of evil, the problem of evil will be solved. If any of the book seems ludicrous, or simply doesn't work, that is because the problem of evil has not been solved yet - you have said as much by saying that things will be different in "the new environment"

No, what I am really saying is that once we apply these principles, the problem of evil will be solved. How can the problem of evil be solved if these principles haven't been implemented? It can only work if we apply them.

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

So we are to implement all this on the off-chance that your father was right - we won't get proof until we have done it.

I would like to be believe my effort in here had some purpose, but I am beginning to doubt that anyone will take this book seriously, so to answer your question, there might have to be small pockets of people who would like to live by these principles to show the world that they work.

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

And you still say this is not a religion? You have to have faith, all will be revealed in the Kingdom Come?

You can't base this discovery on faith. The proof is there, but if you don't see it, you might have to wait for the Golden Age to be upon us.

[Vivisectus]

Originally Posted by Doctor X

Yet another link peacegirl will ignore [Stolen from grayman--Ed.]

Evolution of the Eye

since it dashes "efferent vision" yet again.

--J.D.

Awesome! I think this shows we will have to find some empirical evidence to make sure evolution is correct. Until this evidence that Lessans was right comes in, we should all suspend our critical doubt and accept that he was right on the basis that there might be a microscopically small chance that he was not wrong.

Just like there is a small chance that a rock will fall upwards when released from a height - all that needs to happen is for all its particles to do the same unlikely thing at the same time.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Doctor X

Yet another link peacegirl will ignore [Stolen from grayman--Ed.]

Evolution of the Eye

since it dashes "efferent vision" yet again.

--J.D.

Thanks Doctor X, I'll read it as soon as I have a free moment.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

...and to see that you must believe it

Once you believe it is true, it will all make sense, because you will see that it is true. You will no longer require any proof and will be able to not have quite large amounts of evidence change your mind about it. Once you believe it is true, all these objections will just drop away. You will believe it is true, because you will believe it is true.

As the merry-go-round continues to go round and round...

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

Awesome! I think this shows we will have to find some empirical evidence to make sure evolution is correct. Until this evidence that Lessans was right comes in, we should all suspend our critical doubt and accept that he was right on the basis that there might be a microscopically small chance that he was not wrong.

Just like there is a small chance that a rock will fall upwards when released from a height - all that needs to happen is for all its particles to do the same unlikely thing at the same time.

The possibility that Lessans is right is a lot greater you think.

[Vivisectus]

It hasn't even started Vivisectus, so how can pudding-time be gone?

It was supposed to start a long time ago, as predicted. But like the second coming, it seems capable of being just around the corner for a VERY long time.

I would like to be believe my effort in here had some purpose, but I am beginning to doubt that anyone will take this book seriously, so to answer your question, there might have to be small pockets of people who would like to live by these principles to show the world that they work.

Ah - starting a cult? That would be a good idea. And then, when something doesn't work out, you can always blame it on people not having read the book enough. It really is fool-proof - declare something infallible and refuse to change your stance on it no-matter WHAT anyone says, and everything happily goes round and round in circles.

You can't base this discovery on faith. The proof is there, but if you don't see it, you might have to wait for the Golden Age to be upon us.

What you have here is a religion - yours. You are its only adherent, which is nice because it kinda makes you the apostle, if not the prophet. You dream of holding court among fellow followers, of a wonderful, trouble-free world where you will be very important. You feel that by releasing this idea, you release this world. You are wrong. All you would release would be a dream.

[Vivisectus]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

As the merry-go-round continues to go round and round...

I am glad you are aware of your own circle-reasoning. You even said so yourself: You father was right, because he worked on his thoughts long and hard. If he had been wrong, he would have noticed it and changed it.

[Vivisectus]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

The possibility that Lessans is right is a lot greater you think.

I will add "evolution" to the long list of things that were wrong because of Astute Observations.

[Doctor X]

Since there is no chance Lessans was right, "0" is not terribly great.

Now, one benefit of starting your own cult is, of course, rampant sex with the young and credulous.

--J.D.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Doctor X

Since there is no chance Lessans was right, "0" is not terribly great.

Now, one benefit of starting your own cult is, of course, rampant sex with the young and credulous.

--J.D.

Please let it go Doctor X. It's okay to joke, but don't go below the belt.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

I will add "evolution" to the long list of things that were wrong because of Astute Observations.

I will not touch evolution with a ten foot pole.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

I am glad you are aware of your own circle-reasoning. You even said so yourself: You father was right, because he worked on his thoughts long and hard. If he had been wrong, he would have noticed it and changed it.

You want to be right at all costs. You will not win this debate (if you want to call it that) in the long run. Maybe you'll win in the short run, and if that makes you happy, go for it.

[Vivisectus]

Actually, if you look closely, I haven't said all that much about Right or Wrong, or True or False. I have merely talked about the reasons we would have for believing either way. My point is that none are supplied, except for "My father said so and he was a very clever fellow who spent a lot of time on this".

Since the majority of this idea are safely hidden behind the shelter of the future "new environment" there really isn't much we can say in terms of absolute true or false. It is a bit like religion - they say we won't find out until after we are dead. Handily, the dead don't tell tales.

Now the nonsense about sight, THAT we can conclusively put in the "false" pile, whether you realize it or not.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

It was supposed to start a long time ago, as predicted. But like the second coming, it seems capable of being just around the corner for a VERY long time.

Ah - starting a cult? That would be a good idea. And then, when something doesn't work out, you can always blame it on people not having read the book enough. It really is fool-proof - declare something infallible and refuse to change your stance on it no-matter WHAT anyone says, and everything happily goes round and round in circles.

What you have here is a religion - yours. You are its only adherent, which is nice because it kinda makes you the apostle, if not the prophet. You dream of holding court among fellow followers, of a wonderful, trouble-free world where you will be very important. You feel that by releasing this idea, you release this world. You are wrong. All you would release would be a dream.

I give up. I don't even want to continue the conversation, as it has nothing to do with this discovery.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

Actually, if you look closely, I haven't said all that much about Right or Wrong, or True or False. I have merely talked about the reasons we would have for believing either way. My point is that none are supplied, except for "My father said so and he was a very clever fellow who spent a lot of time on this".

That is not true Vivisectus. You are wrong.

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

Since the majority of this idea are safely hidden behind the shelter of the future "new environment" there really isn't much we can say in terms of absolute true or false. It is a bit like religion - they say we won't find out until after we are dead. Handily, the dead don't tell tales.

Now the nonsense about sight, THAT we can conclusively put in the "false" pile, whether you realize it or not.

I can see you are upset, and I don't want you to be. If you believe Lessans is wrong, then so be it. He wasn't depending on you to understand these principles, and if you don't, it's okay. If no one here understands them, it's okay. They can believe their disagreement is valid, and it's okay. This has gotten exhausting. You win by default.

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

Pudding-time has been and gone.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

What a false and misleading way to judge this book doc, and you know it. You're just being vindictive.

One should exercise one's talents to the best of one's ability.

One should exorcise one's false beliefs to the best of one's ability.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Angakuk

Who is this Rafael person? Is it the artist or the archangel?

Janis Rafael, otherwise known as Peacegirl.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

The problem is that there never was any pudding except in Lessans fevered imagination.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I will not touch evolution with a ten foot pole.

This is surprising that Lessans had nothing to say about evolution, he proves other concepts that he knew nothing about. Surprising that he didn't bring in his ability as a pool hustler as proof?

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

The world ate its meat a long time ago. Now it's ready for the pudding.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by thedoc

This is surprising that Lessans had nothing to say about evolution, he proves other concepts that he knew nothing about. Surprising that he didn't bring in his ability as a pool hustler as proof?

I want to know why you lied?

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by thedoc

It's in the book.

Give me the page number.

[Vivisectus]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

That is not true Vivisectus. You are wrong.

Just let it go. I can see you are upset, and I don't want you to be. If you believe Lessans is wrong, then so be it. He wasn't depending on any one person to understand these principles, and if you don't, it's okay. If no one in here understands these principles, it's okay. They can believe their disagreement is valid, and it's okay. This has gotten exhausting. You win by default.

I am not upset at all! by all means do not hold back on my account.

[thedoc]

Note, Amazon is selling the book, but has removed the negative review that had been posted there, the review that included the info about after death pronoun usage.