Forums...belonging or not to belonging

[beyelzu]

Originally Posted by Goliath

Long, long ago I used to post on the Palladium message boards (Palladium is an RPG company), but I left after my interest in Rifts--their main RPG product--waned.

damn, I used to love playing rifts. It was such a good game.

For a time, I was on the IIDB. At first, it was great: a place where atheists could let their hair down and empty both clips into any theist brave--or foolish--enough to stick around. However, the IIDB has changed...I guess I've let go my frustration and anger at the IIDB Board of Directors for changing the board's goals to finding common ground with theists, even though the very idea of finding common ground with theists strikes me as nothing short of complete and total batshit insanity.

I am not even sure that common ground is possible. I mean take seebs, he is all the time telling me I am going to burn in hell. Oh wait, I do ahve common ground with him. Seriously, I do think it is impossible to find common ground with someone like magus who really does think we are all going to burn in hell.

As to why I came here...at first, I didn't really know. But I've found that I like the atmosphere here, and that I'm sick of the constant battling that I'm used to having to do at other message boards.

the atmosphere here does indeed rock.

[beyelzu]

Originally Posted by pescifish

I haven't seen many tempers flaring on this board except a couple of scuffles in the first week.

I'm not sure that's a good thing or not, but it certainly makes things seem more friendly. I kinda miss acting on my urges to call some folks on on their shit, but it just doesn't seem worth it anymore: we have all been around all those blocks already, no one is gonna change, really, are they?

speaking onely for myself. I have changed my mind on numberous issues even as I vehemently argued a point. I do read other's posts and evaluate the points they make.

[LadyShea]

Seriously, I do think it is impossible to find common ground with someone like magus who really does think we are all going to burn in hell.

I changed my view of Magus some time ago when I realized 1) He's just a baby, just turned 21 I think and 2) He is a new Christian and "on fire" 3) He sticks around through abuse that would have run me off long ago

I just wanted to say that because I kinda admire the kid even though I disagree with everything he says

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

I changed my view of Magus some time ago when I realized 1) He's just a baby, just turned 21 I think and 2) He is a new Christian and "on fire" 3) He sticks around through abuse that would have run me off long ago

I just wanted to say that because I kinda admire the kid even though I disagree with everything he says

So... You think he's there to earn martyr points?

godfry

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

I just wanted to say that because I kinda admire the kid even though I disagree with everything he says

I agree. As I've said many a time, I think Magus treats people far better than he gets treated, and I thought he was downright adorable in his birthday thread.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

So... You think he's there to earn martyr points?

godfry

No, I think he is there to present and defend his views plain and simple...of course I don't know his reasons for sure, that's just what I get from him.

[godfry n. glad]

Hmmmm....

I wonder....

I'll grant you that I may have more in common with many mathematicians than I realize.

But, then again, so what? I guess the difference between myself and a bunch of people on this board is that the previous paragraph would make other people want to jump up and find as many commonalities with themselves and mathematicians as possible, whereas that's an ambition that I just don't share.

Who cares what mathematicians think? <tongue firmly in cheek>

godfry

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by beyelzu

damn, I used to love playing rifts. It was such a good game.

It was..in fact, the background idea for the game is, IMO, the best I've ever seen for any RPG. However, the game mechanics are....broken. As much as I hated to admit it for a number of years, the megadamage system really is screwed up. Not to mention that magic on Rifts Earth is a joke compared to technology.

Seriously, I do think it is impossible to find common ground with someone like magus who really does think we are all going to burn in hell.

Agreed. When I learned that he was younger than I was, it didn't make him seem adorable to me....only that much more pathetic.

And throughout my time posting at the IIDB, I never recalled seeing him take more abuse than he dished out.

the atmosphere here does indeed rock.

I'll drink to that!

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

Hmmmm....

I wonder....

I'll grant you that I may have more in common with many mathematicians than I realize.

But, then again, so what? I guess the difference between myself and a bunch of people on this board is that the previous paragraph would make other people want to jump up and find as many commonalities with themselves and mathematicians as possible, whereas that's an ambition that I just don't share.

Who cares what mathematicians think? <tongue firmly in cheek>

godfry

If you honestly don't care what I think, then why bother writing the post that you wrote?



You all are a good bunch of people, but sometimes you confuse the hell out of me...

[LadyShea]

Goliath, he quite clearly typed . Why confused?

[Dingfod]

Originally Posted by Goliath

If you honestly don't care what I think, then why bother writing the post that you wrote?



You all are a good bunch of people, but sometimes you confuse the hell out of me...

godfry was being facetious, not serious. Jeez, lighten up.

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by Goliath

And throughout my time posting at the IIDB, I never recalled seeing him take more abuse than he dished out.

Well, you know you and I will never agree on this. I can't count the number of GRD threads I had to moderate because he was getting jumped, and it inevitably devolved into really personal, nasty shit. I never once saw him do the same thing back.

Anyhoo, I think we may be meandering a bit here, so I'll let the Magus go.

I'll drink to that!

Now that's what really counts.

You all are a good bunch of people, but sometimes you confuse the hell out of me...

/me laughs out loud
I'll drink to that, too.

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Goliath, he quite clearly typed <tongue firmly in cheek>. Why confused?

Well, primarily because it didn't seem that funny, and it was rather pointless when taken seriously.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by Goliath

Well, primarily because it didn't seem that funny, and it was rather pointless when taken seriously.

You really don't recognize the content?

godfry

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

Well, you know you and I will never agree on this.

Probably true.

I can't count the number of GRD threads I had to moderate because he was getting jumped, and it inevitably devolved into really personal, nasty shit. I never once saw him do the same thing back.

Well, even in the height of my posting over there, I certainly didn't keep an eye on all of the threads, so that's definitely possible.

Now that's what really counts.

* livius drusus laughs out loud
I'll drink to that, too.

Cool.

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

You really don't recognize the content?

Of course I did. Before you distorted it, I wasn't trying to be funny, and I was merely expressing the fact that I didn't find it worth my time to find common ground with theists. My point for doing that was to get vm to realize that it's utterly fucking pointless to argue over someone's ambition--or lack thereof--to do something.

Now, if you weren't joking, then....what would your point be, exactly?

[beyelzu]

on the magus issue.


I have to agree that he has probably been amused far more than abusive at iidb.


the thing is, at the end of the day, biblical literalists think that I am going to burn in hell, that I deserve eternal damnation for what I believe. I find that to be a hell of a stumbling block.

and as much as I enjoy debating

I find literalists frustrating for that very reason.


I guess, although I think Magus seems to be a pretty decent person, I find his views to be repugnant. even though I never saw him damn us atheists and agnostics, his beliefs, when taken to their logical conclusion, certainly do.



and to get it back on track a little, common ground might not be possible. but reasonable discourse and courtesy arent out of the question. I can give as good as I get but what I hope for this forum is that we can deal with xians with respect so long as they do the same.

that doesnt mean I wont tell some dipshit to fuck off when he or she is being offensive, but when the person you ae talking to remains civil, I think we all should as well.

and I think that freethoughtforum has a group of posters capable of this.

I seem to be meandering all over the place on this and in all honesty I just say whatever the fuck I want to anyway, which, hopefully, is one of my charms.


One last thought, both liv and ladyshea think well of magus, and even if I thought he was Satanspawn I would have to at least consider that I could be wrong, because I value their opinions and I have seen them go after dipshits so it's not like they are just warm and fuzzy peaceniks.

fuckin runon sentence, oh well I think this post is coherent.

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Goliath, he quite clearly typed . Why confused?

We even have a smilie for it:

[beyelzu]

Originally Posted by Goliath

Of course I did. Before you distorted it, I wasn't trying to be funny, and I was merely expressing the fact that I didn't find it worth my time to find common ground with theists. My point for doing that was to get vm to realize that it's utterly fucking pointless to argue over someone's ambition--or lack thereof--to do something.

Now, if you weren't joking, then....what would your point be, exactly?

I am sure godfry can defend himself,

but here goes.

he was jokingly making a point about make statements about billions of people on earth by bringing it home to you.


he could have just as easily quoted you and written making sweeping generalization is fallacious.

[beyelzu]

Originally Posted by JoeP

We even have a smilie for it:

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by Goliath

Of course I did. Before you distorted it, I wasn't trying to be funny, and I was merely expressing the fact that I didn't find it worth my time to find common ground with theists. My point for doing that was to get vm to realize that it's utterly fucking pointless to argue over someone's ambition--or lack thereof--to do something.

Now, if you weren't joking, then....what would your point be, exactly?

I was attempting to point out that your statement was, as I read it, that you didn't give a shit about anybody's opinions if they were theist. I think that's rather calloused and shortsighted.

Whether it's your ambition or not is not relevant to the discussion, so far as I'm concerned. I think you find common ground with theists all the time. Largely because you don't know they are theists. Just as many find common ground with you, despite their not being a mathematician.

It's not my ambition to find common ground with theists, either. Yet I do, regularly. And, I happen to think its a worthwhile way to spend a bit of time each day. The reason: because, in my experience, way too many theists assume that non-theists are unstable, demonical and somehow non- or sub-human. Finding a common ground with such people, befriending them on the basis of some kind of commonality and then revealing that you are a non-theist is an educational process for the theist that changes their perceptions of non-theists to a more benign one. There is also the outside possibility that such could benefit other non-theists at some indeterminate point in the future.

I understand your reluctance to engage with theists over issues of religion and spirituality, but to refuse to engage in simple conversation with someone about any other topic under the sun because you disagree over their metaphysics... well, if you want, that's your choice, I guess. But, to me, it sounds like willful intellectual and social impoverishment.

That's how I read it. That's why I responded as I did. I thought I'd like to see how you responded to your own rhetoric when you were the target.

It was not meant to be "funny", but it was tongue in cheek.

Just an experiment.

godfry

[LadyShea]

so it's not like they are just warm and fuzzy peaceniks.

I am fucking warm, and fucking fuzzy, and I'll kick your ass if you say otherwise again.

[beyelzu]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

I am fucking warm, and fucking fuzzy, and I'll kick your ass if you say otherwise again.

what the hell was I thinking suggesting otherwise

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by beyelzu

he could have just as easily quoted you and written making sweeping generalization is fallacious.

He could have....but I wasn't making a sweeping generalization.

Again: I am only stating that I do not have the ambition to find common ground with theists. That's it. I'm not making a statement of the form "All theists do X" or "All theists believe Y".

The idea that a statement about my own lack of ambition to not do a certain thing is a sweeping generalization about an entire group of people is...well, fucking ridiculous.

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

I was attempting to point out that your statement was, as I read it, that you didn't give a shit about anybody's opinions if they were theist.

No. I'm not saying that I don't give a shit about anyone's opinions of they are a theist. There are many theists whose opinions I do give a shit about.

What I am saying is that I lack ambition to find common ground with theists in general.

How did you misread that? I may as well be saying "Yesterday, Soupy Sales and I bought a toaster to use as an engine component in our hotdog mobile, which is shaped like Mickey Mouse's penis. Afterwards, we ripped out the upholstery in the penis-mobile to make a magical flying carpet, which we then used to fly to the clouds to make cotton candy and live amongst the stars forever."

Whether it's your ambition or not is not relevant to the discussion,

It is, in that it's what I'm talking about, as opposed to what I'm not talking about.

I think you find common ground with theists all the time.

With some of them, yes. With theists as a group? I don't think so, no.

It's not my ambition to find common ground with theists, either.

Yet you're not being accused of making sweeping generalizations.

I understand your reluctance to engage with theists over issues of religion and spirituality, but to refuse to engage in simple conversation with someone about any other topic under the sun because you disagree over their metaphysics...

You're putting words in my mouth again. I never said that I don't want to talk to theists because they're theists. I have no problems talking to theists. However, I see little need to try to probe to find common ground.