No. I'll agree... and you needn't have deleted the smart-ass response. It was good.
Ah, well, it didn't add anything of substance to the discussion and it could have easily been misinterpreted as being ungracious. It is easy enough to get misinterpreted without inviting it gratuitously.
Michael,
I must have missed your smart-ass comment. Now I wish I had seen it. I guess, for the sake of the common good, we ought to quit censoring ourselves.
__________________ Old Pain In The Ass says: I am on a mission from God to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable; to bring faith to the doubtful and doubt to the faithful.
We've already been to bowel movements...there's a thread in the Arts & Literature forum about how discussing fine art keeps elderly folks regular.
Me? I'm just a regular guy. I got myself a Steidel watercolor raven print, framed and all.
That must be my problem. I don't own any fine art. Just crap art. Oh well, gotta go now. So to speak.
__________________ Old Pain In The Ass says: I am on a mission from God to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable; to bring faith to the doubtful and doubt to the faithful.
You know what I'm against? Dirt weed. But the sticky, skunky weed, I'm all for that. It's the dirt weed that can stay illegal.
Aw, now, Scarlatti... That dirt weed is hemp. It makes for great fiber. Think: rolling papers. Woody Harrelson leads the way.
And...that dirt weed would never have to pass for decent smoke. I mean, if it's legal, "over the back fence" weed will probably be the best cheap stuff around. All the gardeners will sit around sharing stones with the year's backyard crops.
I honestly can't see much but good to come out of decriminalizing and taxing commercially marketed cannabis products.
Speaking of papers. When I first started smoking tobacco I bought Bull Durham and rolled my own. The Bull Durham came with a package of ungummed RizLa papers (Rice or Wheatstraw. I always preferred the Wheatstraw, used to buy em by the carton). Anyway, acquaintances (not friends) who knew I rolled my own would often try to bum papers off me. So I would give them the ungummed Wheatstraws. After the first time a joint fell apart, half way around the circle, that particular person would never bum off me again. It was also kind of a hoot when someone would see me smoking and assume that it was joint and ask for hit. Nothing funnier than watching someone take a deeeeep toke of straight tobacco. Cheap thrills for free. Alas! Those days will never come around again. Now I have to get my kicks arguing immigration with Adora. Is that pitiful or what?
__________________ Old Pain In The Ass says: I am on a mission from God to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable; to bring faith to the doubtful and doubt to the faithful.
Has anyone seen the movie 'Grass', it's narrarated by Woody Harrelson. Great flick, it relates the war on weed to racism also, and makes some interesting points.
I have to throw my hat in the ring with those who smoked pot and were successful, productive members of society at the same time. Granted, I have known plenty of pot smokers who were losers, but I've also know plenty who weren't. I've also know plenty of tee-totalers who were complete losers. IMHO, it's more a factor of who the person is, than what they are doing. It's a gross overgeneralization to say that because someone injests a particular plant, they are now magically converted into a rabid social degenerate.
As far as being a gateway drug, I can remember kids sniffing gasoline and glue before we were old enough to get pot and booze. There's also sugar, if you don't believe it's a drug, the come to my house and watch my 20 month old boy get high on it.
Would legalization cause more kids to smoke pot? Well, I think a person is either inclined to do that sort of thing, or not. I can't see a church full of fundamentalists running out to buy joints just because they are now legal. Also, I don't know anyone who says "damn, if only they would legalize pot so I could smoke it."
They don't need to get high. The question is, why should people who want to get high be prevented from doing so? People don't need to skydive, but no one is suggesting that this dangerous activity be made illegal.
There is currently no way to test for marijuana impairment vis-a-vis driving (although you can still test reaction times etc.). I'd like to see NORML and similar groups fund research to develop such a test. There is plenty of evidence that marijuana does not impair the ability to drive nearly as much as alcohol.
I am no more lazy and unmotivated now than I was before I started smoking pot. The only hard drug I have ever tried is cocaine. Of course, if marijuana weren't illegal I would never have been introduced to a coke dealer.
Another thing to consider: liquor stores require proof of age. Drug dealers rarely check IDs. I think pot can be harmful to teenagers because their brains are still developing. If I have kids I'm going to tell them not to smoke pot until they're 18.
I deliberately refrained from posting on this thread because I was more or less sitting on the fence. I was leaning just a bit toward legalization because it seems that the effects of marijuana are widely controversial. Frankly, I can't understand how they can't know the effects of marijuana on the body. Don't they have people who conduct tests for this sort of thing??
I deliberately refrained from posting on this thread because I was more or less sitting on the fence. I was leaning just a bit toward legalization because it seems that the effects of marijuana are widely controversial. Frankly, I can't understand how they can't know the effects of marijuana on the body. Don't they have people who conduct tests for this sort of thing??
Also, I like all you geezers.
There have been many tests conducted, and no serious study has ever supported the government's propoganda, that's probably why the government doesn't support any legitimate research of it. I think the most famous was the LaGuardia Commission. And, yes, that is the famous New York mayor, of whom the airport is named after. Here is another site that seems to have a lot of information about drug studies and drug policies .
As anyone who has hooped in the city knows, reefer has little impact on motor skills. If it did, playground hoop in any big city would be of a lower quality. The inference: marijuana doesn't impair driving skills nearly as much as drinking does. (Great drunken hoopers are rare -- although I've seen one or two.)
It is, of course, possible that getting high can cause a driver's mind to wander. Probably the biggest driving risk, though, comes from trying to steer with one's knees while holding the pipe in one hand, and lighting it with the other.
2) Do you have a personal interest for wanting it legalized? Y N
Only in the sense that we all have a personal interest in taking the profit motive out of organized crime.
3) Do you think teens that smoke pot are as successful in school & work as teens who do not? Y N
Probably not. The likeliest explanation is the self-selection for students who will risk criminal conviction, though, rather than the effects of occasional pot smoking itself. At a minimum that's enough of a confound to make this question silly one.
4) Do you think it makes no difference to younger children whether if their parents do dope. They receive adequate care & parenting anyway? Y N
No difference with respect to what? The question is vacuous.
5) If pot is legalized - more people will do it. Y N
Maybe. Some will who otherwise wouldn't; some who otherwise would won't.
6) Hard drug users worked their way up from pot? Y N
I don't know. Again, the effects of smoking pot versus the effects of hanging around with drug dealers and other criminals would be virtually impossible to disentangle in any case.
As things stand, anyone who wants to can get and smoke pot. But doing so criminalizes you by definition, exposes you to criminals socially/developmentally, facilitates a contempt for the law, corrupts law enforcement personnel, stimulates all manner of otherwise unrelated crimes, and makes violent organized criminals rich and powerful. Each of these is a direct result of criminalization and has nothing to do with the use of marijuana. I think the possibility of a few more giggly and dazed teenagers is an excellent bargain for reducing these much more serious social and legal problems.
Well I live in an area of the world where there is a HUGE pot culture, where we have stores with names like Cotton Mouth Smoke shop Where its not uncommon to be walking downtown and catch the occasional wiff of pot smoke.
It's as common to see people toking up at a party as it is to see them kickin back having a few beers.
These are successful, make 100+ grand a year people. Heads of Multi-million dollar companies.
Me personally I started smoking pot at the age of 18 under the advice of my Neuro. Best damn cure for Migranes ever and with way less side effects of the medicine that I was given in the hospitals (Which were not only addictive but actually cause rebound migranes hooking people into a nasty loop of pain>drugs>more pain>more drugs>more pain>Drugs>drug addiction)
Now I have been known to smoke recreationally, hell I've smoked up on the steps of the Vancouver City Library with a cop standing right next to me. Pot just isnt that big of a deal where I live, so many people are known to do it recreationally, its cheap and easy to access...
And still our High school kids are doing great, they are not dropping out in droves to lie around in pot induced stupors. Well no more than normal. No matter whether its legal or not there will always be people that abuse drugs. I find to many people buy in to the centuries old propaganda against pot,
My opinion is a mixed bag, mostly having to do with personal freedom. For the same reason that Legs doesn't want people that are high on marijuana driving I think employers have the right to not want their employees under the influence, particularly where their employees duties can impact public safety. In fact, it is in the public interest, therefor the government's interest. However, I think outside of that, adults should be able to get high if they want to.
As for being a "gateway" drug, I think studies have shown the same links between tobacco and hard drugs. For that matter, most hard drug users probably had a wet diaper on longer than they should have when they were babies. If that's not a reason to do drugs I don't know what is.
__________________
Sleep - the most beautiful experience in life - except drink.--W.C. Fields
I expect that both carrying a concealed knife and stealing car stereos are more closely linked to poor school performance and "hard" drug use than is marijuana use. I wonder what the active ingredient in knives and stereos is?
5) If pot is legalized - more people will do it. Y N
I suspect that I'm not the only one who doesn't do it just because it's illegal. Many people don't drink alcohol even though it's legal. I've got other reasons for not wanting to do pot, the illegality of it just further removes any temptation there might be. I don't think you'd see a huge increase in the amount of people doing it. At first, there might be a greater demand, but then it'd just drive the prices up, thereby restricting it from many who would partake of it.
Nicotine is much more addictive, IIRC.
__________________
Through with oligarchy? Ready to get the money out of politics? Want real progressives in office who will work for the people and not the donors? Want to help grow The Squad?
Sorry, I've been out all day working, not sitting around smoking pot
Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti
Marijuana doesn't exist in a vacuum.
In the context of this thread it does, marijuana is what we are discussing here and instead of stating your view you muddy the waters by bringing up corrupt doctors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti
Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but this one is laughable, utter nonsense.
Laugh all you like and then put your head back in the sand. If you can't see that drugs have a negative effect on kids already, and by legalizing it, making it the 'norm', encouraging it by legal acceptance it will make the problem worse, there is nothing more to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea
What is your opinion of alcohol vs. marijuana, and why?
Alcohol has always been there, the norm in my lifetime -legal- a part of society, regulated. Marijuana - illegal, obtained shadily, difficult to regulate, generally frowned upon by mainstream society.
I don't see the benefits except to those suffering from diseases/conditions that smoking up can alleviate pain.
From people I know in RL, I know for a fact, pot has negative effects on teens smoking it, in school, at work, socially it also leads to small time crime & even prostitution to get more $$ for drugs. These kids need mentoring and help not a government stamp that it is "A-OK"
Just because you (no one specifically) smoked dope and turned out okay as an adult doesn't mean it's the same for kids today - they are growing up in a different time then you did. (you know, when you walked 10 miles in the snow, uphill, both ways)
There is more poverty today amongst children & youths, more broken families, less guidance, less opportunities, more pressure with every second commercial showing them what they need to be cool and fit in. Kids today IMO, compared to when I was growing up face way more issues and anxiety and do turn to drugs to deal with it. Legalizing marijuana will have an impact on this segment of society. IMO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godless Dave
People don't need to skydive, but no one is suggesting that this dangerous activity be made illegal.
Yes, skydiving can be dangerous, that's why there are waivers to be signed by the participants and hundreds of thousands of dollars of insurance on the operators. That's why there are courses & instructors and tandem jumping for beginners, thats why there are chutes & reserve chutes. Your analagy doesn't come close.
Where is all the back up & support for a 15 year old kid seeking drugs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti
I'm so lazy and unmotivated without smoking weed that I'm too lazy and unmotivated to go out and score a quarter-ounce.
You should probably find someone who delivers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch Munny
No difference with respect to what? The question is vacuous.
Okay, I'll try again. Do you think kids with parents who get stoned* receive the same care, parenting & home enviorment as kids who's parents do not do drugs?
As an aside, what kid is more likely to do drugs, a kid who sees drugs in his own home? or a kid who has no exposure? or is it the same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julie
No matter whether its legal or not there will always be people that abuse drugs
Sadly that is very true and it will only get worse. So what is this, if you can't beat them join them? What drug will be in line for legalization next?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch Munny
I expect that both carrying a concealed knife and stealing car stereos are more closely linked to poor school performance and "hard" drug use than is marijuana use.
Why do they need the knives and stolen stereos? I have a feeling the answer is drug related whether hard or not. The kids need the $$ to get it. They sure aren't getting the cash required by flipping burgers.
In closing, I get the feeling you supporters are out of touch with the youth of today and are just fluffing off the dangers as 'well, I turned out okay ~ so will they"
My question to you would be if it had been legal back when you were a kid would it have affected your use of it?
Re: Why is marijuana illegal?
I got myself a Steidel watercolor raven print, framed and all.
A republic, not an empire.
I'd have to agree.
Sorry, I've been out all day working, not sitting around smoking pot 
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