Be My Guidance Counsellor

[viscousmemories]

As a result of a recent chat conversation, I'm thinking of taking some classes at a community college and eventually attempting to get a teaching job at one. I got some good ideas from The Lone Ranger and Clutch in chat, but unfortunately we didn't have the opportunity to get in much depth there. I could (and still might) go in and talk to an academic advisor at the school in the next day or two, but the new semester starts in a week or two so they're very busy right now. So, I'm asking you!

My prior education is pretty lacking. I quit school at 16 and got a G.E.D. at 18. I've never taken the SAT's, but I have taken some community college classes over the years. I don't have a copy of my transcript, but there's not much to see on it anyway. I took about 6 classes on assorted topics over 10 years and only completed half of them. So I'm basically starting from scratch.

My main interests are (now I feel like a Playmate) philosophy, psychology, writing, law, and computers. Basically things that involve a lot of critical thinking and problem solving, both of which I believe I'm naturally good at.

I don't know if I have the time, money, drive or stamina to get a bachelor's degree, much less something like law school. I have a lot of professional experience working with computers and I enjoy learning about computer stuff, but I don't like the idea of teaching about computer stuff. I'd rather teach something philosophy-related, ie. logic or philosophy 101. Of course I'd have to learn a lot more about both, but that's the whole idea here.

Anyway, let's start with that. Any practical advice about what classes I should take, whether testing is important, how much schooling is required for teacher positions, etc?

[Odysseus]

English Literature is always a very good option to take. It has many "transferrable skills". I would recommend that. If you are at all language minded then why not pick up French or Italian.

Computing is also very prosperous, but i would ensure that you write down exactly the kind of experience that you have so that the academic advisor can tailor classes toward the skills you have.


Hope that that helps, and good luck with your studies.
Philosophy, it is probably best to start with Moral philosophy. This is the starting point in most University courses here.

[viscousmemories]

Thanks, Odysseus.

I forgot to add in the OP that I'm not really worried about whether I can make a lot of money. On the contrary I'd prefer to avoid working where most of the money is - in the business world - and stay around people whose life revolves (whether permanently or temporarily) around learning. That's why I think I might enjoy teaching. I don't have the patience to teach young kids, though, despite the fact that I love kids. I think it would have to be adults.

[D. Scarlatti]

Make sure whatever community college credits you decide to undertake are transferrable to a university, in case you decide to do the bachelor's degree thing after all.

[Odysseus]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

Thanks, Odysseus.

I forgot to add in the OP that I'm not really worried about whether I can make a lot of money. On the contrary I'd prefer to avoid working where most of the money is - in the business world - and stay around people whose life revolves (whether permanently or temporarily) around learning. That's why I think I might enjoy teaching. I don't have the patience to teach young kids, though, despite the fact that I love kids. I think it would have to be adults.

I can see what you mean. In that case maybe a course in english language and literature would be good. Im not quite sure of the degree structure in America, but here one does a degree then education post graduate. There is also the oppertunity to do education in conjunction with a subject. I think that teaching english could be very satisfying, no matter what level it is at.

Most of the subjects i mentioned would probably assist you in doing education, but in this country english is always a pre-requisite.

[Ensign Steve]

My philosophy teacher taught at a junior college because he "only" had a Masters degree. He said you really need a PhD to teach at a four-year university. That might just be a California thing, though.

Some specific advice from somebody with 12 years at six colleges (and not a degree to show for it): Do contact your former school and get your transcripts. Every unit helps. Especially if you have already taken math and English, you might avoid having to take placement tests at your new school. Once you're out of high school and into community college, SATs are not an issue anymore, but community colleges have their own placement tests to decide which math and English you belong in.

[Clutch Munny]

If you're not in a great hurry, one bit advice is to start small.

I needed a couple of tries at getting out of high school, and my grades were disastrous when I finally did. No university would have me, so I went to the local community college for the Jan-Apr term. But I only took 3 courses rather than the usual 5 as a full-time student (3 being the minimum to qualify for a loan). This meant I was further behind the curve time-wise, but made it much easier (for me) to get some good marks in those three courses. And it turns out that two or three high grades mean more, in terms of maybe getting scholarships and bursaries and skipping pre-requisites, than five mediocre grades.

Eventually I got better at managing a full courseload, but was never really good at it. You're probably better organized than I in the relevant respects, but I'd still recommend starting small and strong. Maybe Intro Psych and Intro Phil?

[viscousmemories]

Thanks for the ideas, folks. Keep 'em coming.

I doubt I'm better organized than anyone, Clutch, and I'm a really slow reader. So I'm sure you're right on that I should start as slow as possible. Intro Psych and Phil sounds like a good start. Maybe a computer course too, since that should be somewhat easier for me from the start. Intro Psych was actually the first class I ever took and I got an A in it, but that was about 15 years ago. I doubt I remember anything at all from it.

[Sock Puppet]

Watch the workload per class, as well. Just two reading-intensive classes can wipe out all of your free time, although this is more of a danger in upper-division classes. And if you discover you need a couple of really dry courses right off, take a fun elective as the third.

Epistemology is another good "starter" philosophy course, if you can stomach the Descartes section.

One bit of advice I give to all college-bound students is: Research the teachers at least as much as the classes themselves. Find out what other students have said about them, and what their interests are. In the liberal arts area, where the order of classes to take is more flexible, I'd even say to pick classes based on the teacher first and subject matter second. It makes a huge difference in the quality of your experience.

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by Ensign Steve

My philosophy teacher taught at a junior college because he "only" had a Masters degree. He said you really need a PhD to teach at a four-year university. That might just be a California thing, though.

Nope, it's all but universal. Some 4-year schools will hire people to teach as adjuncts without doctorates, but your hope of ever getting a tenure-track position without a doctorate at a 4-year school is minimal. Of course, that's probably not really your long-term goal anyway, but even if you're lucky-enough to get an adjuct position somewhere with only a master's, it's a lousy situation. You'll get poor pay and no benefits, and they'll kick you out on the street the moment they decide they no longer have any need for you.

On the other hand, you can get a tenure-track position at a junior or community college with only a master's. These junior/community colleges (as opposed to virtually all 4-year universities and most 4-year colleges) don't much care about whether or not you're going to be doing research -- they just want you to show up regularly and teach your classes. But you're extremely unlikely to be able to land a permanent position with benefits even at a community college without at least a Master's.


Of course, if you're only interested in teaching the occasional "community access" course, you don't even necessarily need a degree in the field, though it helps. If you have a skill that's in demand, you can often convince a community college to let you teach a course in that area -- even if it's something like how to rebuild an automobile engine. Anything that's seen as something that enough members of the general public would be willing to pay in order to learn about is something that might be taught as a community access course.

Community access courses I've seen or taught have included everything from "Basic Automobile Maintenance" to "Using Computer Spreadsheets" to "Introductory Karate" to "Hiking and Camping" to "How to Recognize Different Kinds of Dinosaurs and Avoid Being Embarrassed by Your Kids." (Three guesses as to who proposed teaching that last one.)

It's worth keeping in mind that if a community college hires someone to teach a community access course, the pay is not great, and they often prefer to pay in one lump sum at the end of the course. So you'll likely be teaching for some time -- possibly a few months -- before you're paid for your efforts.

Best wishes,

Michael

[godfry n. glad]

I'd reinforce what Clutch, Sock Puppet and the Lone Ranger have stated.

It's my second-hand experience that community college instructors are amongst the most abused professionals out there. The whole "speciality" thing is used a lot in community colleges, where if you have a demonstrated skill in demand, they'll hire you to teach classes in that skill area. Otherwise, you'll need the paper to prove it.

Start slow and do well. I did my whole master's at part-time, because I was working part-time. It took nearly the whole seven year limit.

As an aside to the recommendation to take a "fun" class with a couple of required drudgery classes, I'd note that if you intend on getting the paper affirmation (a diploma) then try to stick to the required classes and not go wandering too far afield from your agenda just to have fun.

I'm also from the "humanities" side of the academic fields and I wholeheartedly support the contention that you need to know about the instructors as much as you need to know about the content. I've had real duds as instructors and still done well in their classes, but my retention from those is minimal. Don't ignore the challenges, though. Skirting around too many challenges (the tough professors) can often deny you access to some of the most interesting instructors and the best learning experiences.

As noted, if you're going to want to teach at the post-secondary level, you're most likely going to need a master's degree. That means a bachelor's first. My wife got her bachelor's in just over three years, because she went summers and took full loads. I took five years because when I reached the end of four years, I still needed 12 credit hours (four classes) and one wasn't offered until winter term, so I signed up for a second major and loved learning about urban development.

Lotsa luck!

(hey, vm....educate me as to who that is in your avatar)

[Ensign Steve]

Myspace.com has a "grade your professor" feature where you can check out what previous students have said about potential professors. Of course you have to belong to myspace to use it. I haven't checked it yet myself, but I plan to rate my computer science professor at the end of this term.

[viscousmemories]

Thanks for all the input, you guys. Lots of good food for thought.

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

(hey, vm....educate me as to who that is in your avatar)

'Tis a favorite novelist and poet of mine, Charles Bukowski.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by vm

'Tis a favorite novelist and poet of mine, Charles Bukowski.

Hey, thanks, vm.

This is the guy one of my good buddies has been threatening to loan me some of his copies of Bukowski's stuff.

I read the Rolling Stone interview. Some of his quotes were so impressive that he made it on my "must obtain" list on the strength of the interview alone.

[viscousmemories]

My pleasure.

I think I read Post Office first, then Women and Ham on Rye. I once posted an excerpt from my journal where I had briefly mentioned the books as I was reading them. As the post says I went to jail shortly after writing that journal entry, and then straight to rehab from jail. Six months in to rehab the clinical director took a bit of morbid pleasure in telling me that my "hero", renowned for his appetite for alcohol, had died.

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

I think I read Post Office first, then Women and Ham on Rye.

Misread: "then Women and Ham on Rye." Intriguing title.

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Misread: "then Women and Ham on Rye." Intriguing title.

Whoa, that would be weird. My women usually come with bologna, and a lot of it.

I just want to thank everyone again for the sage advice here. I've decided there's been enough changes in my life in the last month that I'm not quite ready to throw classes into the mix as well, but perhaps in the summer. Meanwhile I just got access to a huge library of online computer courses, so I've been using those to bring my skillz up to date. Aside from beer, women and writing, working with computers is the only thing I've ever really loved to do.