How to tell my fundy parents about my agnosticism...

[FormerFundie2004]

Advice needed.

Ok, here's the deal. I am a humanist and an agnostic. My parents are fundy xians.

I used to be a fundy as well, until I turned 18 and began to lose control of my doubts. I was still a fundy until age 19, when my beliefs began to unravel and eventually my political/religious/philosophical beliefs developed into something similar to liberal humanistic agnosticism.

On May 17, 2004 I joined ChristianForums.com, and that is where and when the process began.

On June 23rd, 2005, at age 20, I officially recognized and announced the fact that I was no longer Christian, and renounced Christianity. Therefore, it has been about 7 months since my deconversion.

Now, many changes have happened in my life lately. I graduated from College with my A.S. degree a few days before deconverting, I landed a decent permanent full-time job last month, I have a boyfriend whom I am quite happy with, I will be moving out and living on my own in a few months, and all is well thus far.

However, I have one problem. Ever since my deconversion, I have accounted for my obvious changes in political/philosophical views to my parents by telling them that I am now a moderate Christian, and I attend a Lutheran church, and am no longer of their Baptist faith.

In other words, I have been maintaining a lie for the past 7 months. This was for several reasons:

1. I am not emotionally ready to tell them the truth.
2. I was not financially ready to tell them the truth (just in case they kick me out or something).

I was planning on maintaining the happy little lie for years... Now, however, a small complication has presented itself. I have begun to form friendships/relationships with others like myself: agnostics, freethinkers, non-christians, atheists, etc. And the lie is becoming difficult to maintain.

I have been faced with the choice of keeping these friends in the dark to my family, or bringing them into view, but telling them (my friends) to also maintain my lie, and say they are christians as well. However, that presents a moral problem. One day I will have to tell my parents about my elaborately constructed lie. The more time that passes, the more elaborate and difficult to maintain this lie will become.

Things were so simple at first when I had just gotten out of church and had no friends... But now that I have a boyfriend whom I wish to present to my parents, this is becoming a problem. I cannot expect him to lie. Knowing how my dad is, he will ask my bf religious questions. That is the first thing on my dad's agenda. Religion is number 1. So of course, it will become known that my bf is agnostic/non-relgious.

Note that we will most likely be at a restaurant when this happens. Then silence will come over the table. My dad will attempt a persuasive conversation with my bf about how god is real and loves him and died for him and what not.

Then later, dad will approach me about why I am dating a non-christian, that I am not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, yada yada. I will not have an answer, except this: I am not a christian either, dad.

I do not know if or when I will be emotionally prepared to tell my parents about that. The effects it will have on them will be monumental and disastrous. All this time they thought their daughter was truly "saved" and really wasn't: such a deception, how can they ever trust me again? How can they ever know the "real" me if they didn't know this fundamental thing about me? All these years they were deceived, and on and on. And then, they will be grieved over it, thinking that I am going to hell when I die. My mother will be in constant emotional pain over that.

To tell my parents about my agnosticism will cause a lot of pain and might break off my relationship with my parents. But to maintian a lie will become impossible as my relationships with my friends and boyfriend progress. I don't want to keep my bf in the dark forever.

What other options are there? What should I do? I am looking for input. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[Ari]

Hey, didn't know about your conversion welcome to the darkside, Satan has a nice selection of cocktails, virgin of course, till you turn 21. Satan wouldn't want to break any laws, and upset his most prized possession (the US government).

Don't really have any suggestions for you, hard headed religious parents can be quite annoying. My only suggestion is to try and ease them into it, instead of hitting them with it, start to act more and more uninterested or more liberal christian if you get the chance. At least then it wont be a complete surprise.

You could always pretend you are a lesbian who is into practicing witchcraft, then say just kidding, might lighten the blow of a humanist agnostic with a boyfriend. (not recommended)

[Dragar]

I think my best advise is not to be confrontational. If they say, "Oh, so you think there is no god now, huh?" say, "I don't know, there may well be one." In fact, "I don't know" is probably the most honest and non-confrontational thing you can say.

Just don't follow it up with 'and neither do you'.

I must have missed your deconversion too, FormerFundie2004, though I knew you were having serious doubts. Good luck with this, and perhaps your parents will be more understanding than you think.

[xouper]

FormerFundie200419: Advice needed.

If you are looking for advice on how to tell Baptist parents that their grown daughter is no longer a Christian, one possibility might be to ask some Baptist parents who do not know you or your parents (i.e from another church or something). If you can find such parents, you might wish to ask them if they have an answer to this hypothetical: "How would you want your daughter to tell you she is no longer a Christian?" Or something like that, according to how you wish to frame the question.

The downside to asking such advice from Baptists is that they may sidestep your question entirely and instead focus on "saving" you.

You could ask me, but I wouldn't have a clue, since I am neither Christian nor do I have any kids. Or, I could ask some Baptist parents I know, and report back here what they said.

Don't mind me, I'm just thinking out loud here, since you asked. Any advice I might have always comes with a full money back guarantee.

[ManM]

Well, this is an interesting turn about. Back in the day, this situation was common for Christian children of Pagan parents. There are quite a few stories of children who were actually killed by their parents for confessing their conversion to Christ. Jesus even provided advice for this very situation:

If any come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Doing what is right is more important that pandering to the problems of others. If your parents are distressed by your agnosticm, any actions they perform that sever ties with you is their responsibility, and will weigh on their conscience. By holding onto a lie, you are doing something that impacts your conscience. Do the best to live your own life with a clear conscience. It will stab you right in the heart when you see the expression on your parents' faces, but that wound will heal as time goes on. By maintaining a lie, you are rubbing a blister. It hurts a little, but it makes the blister bigger, so when you actually do lance it, it will hurt even more. My advice would be to clear your conscience as soon as possible and put the ball in their court.

[Clutch Munny]

My advice, for what it's worth:

You can't hide it from them forever, nor even for much longer by the sound of it. All you can control is the way they find out.

Tell them, in person, without your boyfriend there. In fact, don't bring him into it at all, if you can remotely avoid it -- that'll just convince them that's he's somehow to blame.

Ask them to hear you out completely before they respond. Emphasize and re-emphasize how much you love them, how much you share with them other than a religious belief. I'd find some way of mentioning events like Bosnia and Kosovo, in which people's lives were torn apart when they decided that religious differences with their neighbours mattered more than the way their lives were intertwined by history, friendship and even love. Tell them you accept their religious choices and want them to be part of your life, and ask only that they show you the same acceptance.

I strongly advise against dwelling on your reasons for deconverting. Make it as general as possible: "There are many reasons, but the general theme is that I don't see religion as giving a good explanation of any aspect of the world. I know you and many others disagree, but like anyone, I can only decide for myself." Try not to let it turn into a big argument about specifics like creationism, the resurrection, and so forth. That'll just exhaust you and get them worked up at your obstinacy. Instead, meet any such attempts resolutely: "I know the arguments you're talking about. They don't persuade me. I'm absolutely not attempting or expecting to bring you around to my way of thinking about this; I respect you too much to think I could undo your perspectives with an argument or two; and right now I really need you to show that same respect for me." Or somesuch.

And to use some Iraq-lingo, have an exit strategy! Very important. Don't do this when you've got to spend the next 12 hours with your family. Time it an hour or ninety minutes before you have to go to work or go to class or whatever. And however well or badly it goes, let them know you love them again before you leave.

My advice doesn't come with a money-back guarantee, though. This is a tough situation and there might just be no way to manage a painless outcome. Breath deep, and take the long view. Good luck.

[JoeP]

Clutch's advice sounds excellent.

I think you have to do now (or soon without excuses), and you have to accept that it will be hard.

[godfry n. glad]

I concur with Clutch Munny's advice.

I'd add two conditions, though. First, I'd move from telling them that you attend Lutheran services to telling them you're attending Unitarian services. Actually go to a Unitarian meeting, if you can (as a humanist agnostic, you should feel fairly comfortable, actually). Two, clue your boyfriend in on the situation. It would be much better if he came into the picture for your parents after you break the news.

[Sweetie]

It sucks to be you.

I'm teasing and not kidding at the same time, seriously. I am a traditional Catholic who just hasn't been receiving communion and you could say my parents are fairly liberal and still I have to deal with comments and questions because my Mom worries about me.

My friend was raised strict Mennonite, skirts, don't cut hair and you should see how much it stresses her out having to hide the fact that she wears pants and that she cuts her hair and stuff.

It's not easy, no no no. I think it is the right choice to only tell them about it when you've got something on your own out there in real life to fall back on.

My only thoughts are be gentle, be firm, and give them space and take your own.

Other than that, good luck and best wishes.

[Plant Woman]

Also prepare yourself that they are not going to be accepting of your new direction. It will pain them to think you will be going to hell, and they will probably have the whole family and church praying for you. After awhile though they will probably settle down and although not accept it, will back off from it. I come from a Pentecostal background and my family are steeped in their church. It took many years for them to be respectful of my position even though they still don't accept it. I remember how tough it was to come out to them, mainly because I knew how they would feel about it. I understand why you are reluctant to be truthful about it, but you will feel better if you are not lying. Clutch's advice is sound and I would add that give as little information as possible when you tell them. Less is more in this situation.

Eventually you will wonder how they can worship a god that would send you to hell for not giving you enough evidence to believe in it. You have honestly come to the conclusion that it does not exist.

Good luck with your parents! One book that may be helpful to you is Leaving the Fold. Although some of the problems you have already dealt with, it will help you in situations like this.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Originally Posted by ManM

Well, this is an interesting turn about. Back in the day, this situation was common for Christian children of Pagan parents. There are quite a few stories of children who were actually killed by their parents for confessing their conversion to Christ. Jesus even provided advice for this very situation:

I must say that's a novel spin on that verse. I've always figured that verse was put in there because cults have their followers break their family ties, done because family members have the capacity to talk some sense into the cultist.

As to the OP, everybody's advice looks pretty good. I'll tell my brother someday, he'd understand. My parents, I fear it would destroy them. Their other son is already a very back-slidden Christian, if he even still is one. I've seen the look on his face that one gives when you think something is a load of bullshit.

[Sweetie]

Originally Posted by SkepticJ

I must say that's a novel spin on that verse. I've always figured that verse was put in there because cults have their followers break their family ties, done because family members have the capacity to talk some sense into the cultist.

Throw in the fact that hate simply means to love less in Jewish usage, and the verse takes on whole new meaning and oddly enough says the same thing Jesus says elsewhere, put God first, love God first above all else as in the first commandment.

[Godless Dave]

Good advice so far. I would suggest not telling them until after you move out of the house.

How much you tell them and how you do it depends on how involved you want them to be in your life. It sounds like you'd like to be able to mention your friends and your boyfriend when talking to your parents. The other option would be to not mention them to your parents, and let them wonder if you have no friends or are hiding something. The more open option would probably be a lot easier on you. But that doesn't mean you have to tell your parents right off the bat; you could wait until they ask about your friends' beliefs, or wait until they ask you where you have been going to church. Withholding information is not the same as lying.

Or maybe telling them instead of waiting to be asked would be better; I don't know. Every family dynamic is different.

One thing I would suggest is holding off on having your parents meet your boyfriend. It's not really necessary to do this until after you become more serious (but before you become engaged, if that ends up happening). In my youth I made the mistake of presenting every girlfriend to my parents even if it wasn't headed towards marriage. This was bad for me and my warped conception of relationships at the time, but it was also confusing for my parents and too much pressure to put on the girlfriends.

But you will need to tell them about your agnosticism before they meet him. That's no way for your parents to find out, and would be very hard on your boyfriend too!

I have a decent relationship with my parents, and I'm 35 years old, but there are still things I keep from them. Anything that might get a judgemental reaction from either parent gets put on a need-to-know basis. For instance, I didn't tell anyone in my family I went deer hunting last fall, because my mom would freak out if she knew. If I had shot a deer I probably would have told them, but since I didn't there was no reason for them to know, y'know? I tell them the names of some of my friends and what we do together, but not all. I started dating my current girlfriend in September but didn't tell anyone in my family until November in order to avoid nosy, inane questions. But that only works for me because I live 1000 miles away so it's not like they see me around town.

So good luck. This will be hard. Have you every posted on http://www.exchristian.net/ ? They have a "breaking the news" thread in their Testimony forum; several of the posters there have been in situations similar to yours.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Originally Posted by Sweetie

Throw in the fact that hate simply means to love less in Jewish usage, and the verse takes on whole new meaning and oddly enough says the same thing Jesus says elsewhere, put God first, love God first above all else as in the first commandment.

Sorry about this derail, thread starter...


Prove it, Sweetie.

[Blake]

Skip the derail and start a new thread.

You have all my sympathy, FormerFundie2004. I agree that it'll be best to come clean, sooner rather than later, but I recognize how hard it might be on both you and them, certainly in the short term. I think the recommendation to ease them into it, trying to drop hints without going straight to the blunt announcement, is an excellent one.

[username]

I faced a similar situation around 10 years ago. Still haven't told family I am atheist. In my case I wasn't living at home when I deconverted so I didn't have that issue.

I don't know what your folks are like, but mine were/are see no evil, hear no evil types. They have an impressive ability to not see the obvious which works to my advantage. My kids don't go to church nor do I or my wife. One would think this would indicate to Mom that I am not a fundy any longer, but it doesn't seem to have. She will still talk about her bible study and what the pastor said and all that and I nod as she talks and that's that.

My older brother married a Catholic and for my Mom that is about as bad as becoming a Satanist and she fretted for years about him. Now she is old, Dad is dead and part of the reason I don't tell her is that she hasn't asked in spite of the obvious, I don't really want to get into it with her and lastly, I would prefer she go to her grave with her delusions intact rather than make her uncomfortable or unhappy in her advanced age. I really don't know if she could handle reality at this point.

So, I have no real advice for you, it seemed Clutch had some wise words, but I just took the "They don't ask, I don't tell" approach. I can't say it has done much for my relationship with my mother, but then again it probably wouldn't make any difference, we are radically different people.

[Godless Dave]

One other thing: don't try to justify or explain your new beliefs. They won't want to hear it.

[FormerFundie2004]

Thank you all for your advice. Greatly appreciated.

Originally Posted by Clutch Munny

My advice, for what it's worth:

You can't hide it from them forever, nor even for much longer by the sound of it. All you can control is the way they find out.

Tell them, in person, without your boyfriend there. In fact, don't bring him into it at all, if you can remotely avoid it -- that'll just convince them that's he's somehow to blame.

I agree. I'm going to tell them in a few months, then introduce them to my bf a few months after that.

Ask them to hear you out completely before they respond.

I don't plan for it to take that long.

Emphasize and re-emphasize how much you love them, how much you share with them other than a religious belief. I'd find some way of mentioning events like Bosnia and Kosovo, in which people's lives were torn apart when they decided that religious differences with their neighbours mattered more than the way their lives were intertwined by history, friendship and even love.

They won't want to hear it/won't be able to hear it. It'll sound like mumbling BS to them.

Tell them you accept their religious choices and want them to be part of your life, and ask only that they show you the same acceptance.

Yep.

I strongly advise against dwelling on your reasons for deconverting. Make it as general as possible: "There are many reasons, but the general theme is that I don't see religion as giving a good explanation of any aspect of the world. I know you and many others disagree, but like anyone, I can only decide for myself." Try not to let it turn into a big argument about specifics like creationism, the resurrection, and so forth. That'll just exhaust you and get them worked up at your obstinacy. Instead, meet any such attempts resolutely: "I know the arguments you're talking about. They don't persuade me. I'm absolutely not attempting or expecting to bring you around to my way of thinking about this; I respect you too much to think I could undo your perspectives with an argument or two; and right now I really need you to show that same respect for me." Or somesuch.

Excellent. Thank you.

And to use some Iraq-lingo, have an exit strategy! Very important. Don't do this when you've got to spend the next 12 hours with your family. Time it an hour or ninety minutes before you have to go to work or go to class or whatever. And however well or badly it goes, let them know you love them again before you leave.

I don't really understand why it's so important to reinforce the notion that I love them. Why would they take my deconversion as a sign of a loss of love for them? It isn't about them.

My advice doesn't come with a money-back guarantee, though. This is a tough situation and there might just be no way to manage a painless outcome. Breath deep, and take the long view. Good luck.

Yes, it will be painful. How painful? I don't know. I will wait until I move out in a few months to break the news. I'm slowly breaking it to my sister first, who seems to be in the process of deconverting as well. She is 16. I hope that my parents won't bar me from hanging out with her once they know about my deconversion. That would be painful as well.

[Dingfod]

I never did tell my parents I didn't believe in God while I was under their roof or living in the same town. Five or six years when I was visiting from Wyoming, after I was on my own, my mother and I were sitting at the dining room table talking about this and that when she asked me. Of course, her motive was that she didn't believe either, and never had, despite making sure we went to church every time there was anything going on at the church. It turned out that none of my four siblings were believers either. So much for the influence of the church and our father.

[Clutch Munny]

Originally Posted by FormerFundie200419

I don't really understand why it's so important to reinforce the notion that I love them. Why would they take my deconversion as a sign of a loss of love for them? It isn't about them.

I hope you're right. You know your parents and I don't. In my experience, though, it's not rare for people with deeply fundamentalist views and lifestyles to systematically equate Christian with Good and Non-Christian (especially Atheist or Agnostic) with Bad. Tell them you no longer believe, and there's a chance they will hear it as "I've given up morality, decency, the social bonds of family, kindness and love altogether."

If there's an element of that reasoning in your family's case, then it'll be hard for you to get a fair shake from them. They may tend to talk about you and your situation when you're not around, and like many such cases, their talk can become a cooperative effort to fit your behaviour into those preconceived categories -- passing the ball back and forth conversationally, taking turns subtly modifying the content of what you actually said to make it harder, meaner, more aggressive, less open-minded in retrospect. If you say ten pleasant things and one cross word, they may focus on the cross word as evidence of how your unbelief has destroyed your moral compass. But you can make this much harder for them by keeping it short and sweet. Normally that just means short -- but really, short and sweet. Not a cross word, don't let yourself be provoked, emphasize that your unbelief is not a rejection of them.

Again, says me. I don't pretend to know the details of your situation, though.

[Godless Dave]

Originally Posted by FormerFundie200419

I don't really understand why it's so important to reinforce the notion that I love them. Why would they take my deconversion as a sign of a loss of love for them? It isn't about them.

You are rejecting something very important to them. They might interpret that as rejecting them. It doesn't make sense, but human feelings rarely do.

[FormerFundie2004]

Originally Posted by Clutch Munny

I hope you're right. You know your parents and I don't. In my experience, though, it's not rare for people with deeply fundamentalist views and lifestyles to systematically equate Christian with Good and Non-Christian (especially Atheist or Agnostic) with Bad. Tell them you no longer believe, and there's a chance they will hear it as "I've given up morality, decency, the social bonds of family, kindness and love altogether."

If there's an element of that reasoning in your family's case, then it'll be hard for you to get a fair shake from them. They may tend to talk about you and your situation when you're not around, and like many such cases, their talk can become a cooperative effort to fit your behaviour into those preconceived categories -- passing the ball back and forth conversationally, taking turns subtly modifying the content of what you actually said to make it harder, meaner, more aggressive, less open-minded in retrospect. If you say ten pleasant things and one cross word, they may focus on the cross word as evidence of how your unbelief has destroyed your moral compass. But you can make this much harder for them by keeping it short and sweet. Normally that just means short -- but really, short and sweet. Not a cross word, don't let yourself be provoked, emphasize that your unbelief is not a rejection of them.

Again, says me. I don't pretend to know the details of your situation, though.

They do tend to think that non-Christian = bad and Christian = good. They think atheists and agnostics and non-christians are immoral degenerates and live life according to the "desires of the flesh," selfishly, in direct rebellion to god. They (especially my dad) think that nonbelief is rebellion against god, rather than intellectual honesty. In fact, I don't think my dad will ever be able to understand or accept how an honest intellectual process/evaluation of the facts can lead to agnosticism or atheism, because he is so strongly convinced that those who do not share his beliefs have something against god.

So yes, they will assume that I am becoming a selfish immoral degenerate, and they think they have evicence for this. For example, if I tell them I sometimes drink socially, they will take that as a strong indication that I am becoming "immoral." They define immoral differently. Immoral includes many more things for them than it does for me, such as drinking, sex outside marriage, lack of belief in god, using profanity, watching rated R movies, etc.

Originally Posted by Godless Dave

You are rejecting something very important to them. They might interpret that as rejecting them. It doesn't make sense, but human feelings rarely do.

Yes, they will take it as a sign of me rejecting them, rather than just their belief. It is especially this way with my mother. When I told her I was now a moderate to liberal christian, she took that as a rejection of her, rather than a rejection of her teachings. She began to worry about me and try to get answers out of me as to where I am spiritually "in my walk with god."

So yes, I guess you both are correct. They will think I am an immoral degenerate and that I am rejecting them. This sounds like a lot of fun.