Linguistic miscellany

[lisarea]

I'm curious about this, but I can't find it by searching that translation site, and image match shows that it just popped up on imgur on October 10 with no notes or anything. Is it based on services requested from that company, real time translators, census or some other data, some random online poll results, or what?

I can't remember ever encountering someone here who spoke German but not English, so maybe it's just something where they're counting "took German in high school." It's relatively easy for English speakers to pick up, so I think it's a popular choice among slackers.

And the Chinese thing is confusing to me too. Did they lump a bunch of mutually unintelligible languages in together, or are they just counting one? Because if they're counting ALL Chineses together, I am boggled that it's not the #3 here.

EDIT: So as soon as I posted, I found the original, but I still can't find anything about how they reached these conclusions.

[SR71]

I subscribe to the "took German in high school" theory, mostly because I subscribed to slacking and taking German in high school.

[erimir]

Russian translators being more in demand tells you that there are more Russian speakers in Oregon with weak English skills, but not necessarily that there are more Russian speakers overall.

And as I mentioned, "Chinese" is not really a single language. Having a Mandarin Chinese translator won't help if the person you're translating for only knows Cantonese. Translators would need to be more specific than "Chinese". It's also possible that they requested translators for languages other than Mandarin and Cantonese and you didn't recognize the name as a variety of "Chinese" - if they say they want a Hakka or Hokkien translator without saying that it's Hakka/Hokkien Chinese I could see it not being obvious. Although I don't know how familiar you are with the names of Chinese varieties.

You could be right that Russian is more common than Chinese languages in Oregon though. There are apparently fewer Chinese people in Oregon than I expected.

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Why not this thrad:

An interesting tweet thrad full of first nations people giving a blurb about their nation with many linguistic examples.

Hey #NativeTwitter what is the name of you tribe in your language & what does it mean?

I’ll start. The Cherokee word ᎠᏂᏴᏫᏯ (aniyvwiya) means the people or the principal people.

Today the word is used in conversation just to talk about Indians or Indigenous folks.

— Rebecca Nagle (@rebeccanagle) January 16, 2020

[JoeP]

Unprecedented rise in the use of the word unprecedented.

[BrotherMan]

INCONCEIVABLE.

[JoeP]

'La Covid': coronavirus acronym is feminine, Académie Française says | World news | The Guardian

“Covid is the acronym for coronavirus disease and acronyms have the genus of the name that forms the core of the phrase of which they are an abbreviation,” the academy ruled

and they proceed to give examples, which suggest that this is all quite logical and consistent.

And that is not all. Pas du tout: the AF is still not grammatically done with Covid-19, which it regrets is not referred to as “corona virus morbus” (presumably Covim for short).

“Coronavirus disease – it should be noted that one might have preferred the Latin name morbus, which has the same meaning and is more universal – means ‘disease caused by the crown-shaped virus’.”

OK no, they're just messing with us as much as they possibly can.

[JoeP]

As we all know, you sometimes find what feels like it should be a simple subject but which turns out to be kinda complicated.

Today's was Yes and no.

I'll leave you to read about the three- and four-form systems, and whether Early English had a four-form system (with yes and yea, no and nay having distinct uses), and just highlight this:

In December 1993, a witness in a Scottish court who had answered "aye" to confirm he was the person summoned was told by a sheriff judge that he must answer either yes or no. When his name was read again and he was asked to confirm it, he answered "aye" again, and was imprisoned for 90 minutes for contempt of court. On his release he said, "I genuinely thought I was answering him."

[ceptimus]

There's the story of a linguistics professor explaining to his class that different languages may or may not have double negatives, and the meaning of a double negative might be different or ambiguous depending on the context: however, there are no such problems with double positives.

In response to which, one of his students shouted, "Yeah. Right."

[Basset Hound]

Originally Posted by ceptimus

There's the story of a linguistics professor explaining to his class that different languages may or may not have double negatives, and the meaning of a double negative might be different or ambiguous depending on the context: however, there are no such problems with double positives.

In response to which, one of his students shouted, "Yeah. Right."

In some languages double negatives are normal and expected. In Afrikaans 'I am not going there' is "Ek gaan nie darheen nie." Literally I'm not going there not.

[JoeP]

[Ensign Steve]

Originally Posted by Basset Hound

In some languages double negatives are normal and expected. In Afrikaans 'I am not going there' is "Ek gaan nie darheen nie." Literally I'm not going there not.

Indeed, Spanish as well. No tengo nada = I don't have nothing = I don't have anything.

[erimir]

Originally Posted by ceptimus

There's the story of a linguistics professor explaining to his class that different languages may or may not have double negatives, and the meaning of a double negative might be different or ambiguous depending on the context: however, there are no such problems with double positives.

In response to which, one of his students shouted, "Yeah. Right."

That joke is funny, but it is true that there is no general rule that double positives have an opposite meaning (generally, more positives = more strongly positive, although most of the time the positive meaning is unmarked so a sentence that's positive throughout usually simply lacks any negative markings).

Sarcasm can come into play, but sarcasm is layered over the literal meaning, which in the case of "yeah, right" has become so conventionalized that the phrase itself is assumed to be sarcastic without the use of sarcastic tone. But that doesn't transfer over to "yes, correct" which is the same meaning literally, with synonyms. In order for "yes, correct" to mean the same thing, you'd have to put on a clear sarcastic tone.

But in Spanish or colloquial English, the rules on double (really, multiple) negatives aren't limited to some frozen expressions. "I didn't do nothing" and "I ain't go nowhere", "I ain't see nobody nowhere" etc. all work the same way, and the same for Spanish equivalents "no hice nada", "no fui a ninguna parte", "no vi a nadie a ningún lado", etc.

There is something weird with some more recent English responses with "yeah, no" and "no, yeah" which is another matter though, as those aren't double negatives or positives...

[fragment]

Originally Posted by erimir

There is something weird with some more recent English responses with "yeah, no" and "no, yeah" which is another matter though, as those aren't double negatives or positives...

I feel like I'm used to using "yeah" as either a non-committal acknowledgement or a "let me think on that a moment" noise, like I might use "uh-huh" or "ummm". And these uses tipped me into the "yeah nah" thing. Of course now I use it with deliberate sarcasm sometimes too.

[Ari]

I’ve always thought of it as a Californian thing but I’m not sure how widespread it really is. It would make more sense if we could type inflection.

“Yeah, no.” Said in a rising on the yeah and falling on the no essentially means “I acknowledge that idea, and decline your invitation.” where as “No, yeah!” said falling then rising generally means “I am in disbelief of the opportunity at hand and wish to take part.”

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

French: Je ne sais pas: I no know not.

See in the US south, say, Louisiana. I don’t know nothin’. I ain’t got nothin’.

[fragment]

Originally Posted by Ari

I’ve always thought of it as a Californian thing but I’m not sure how widespread it really is. It would make more sense if we could type inflection.

Afrikaans has ja-nee which goes back decades, although according to this usage may differ from other places

https://dsae.co.za/entry/janee/e03453

[BrotherMan]

Originally Posted by Ari

“Yeah, no.” Said in a rising on the yeah and falling on the no essentially means “I acknowledge that idea, and decline your invitation.” where as “No, yeah!” said falling then rising generally means “I am in disbelief of the opportunity at hand and wish to take part.”

We enjoyed mocking the statement that appears in some conversations:

"Yeah yeah yeah yeah no."

and it's corallary

"No no no no no yeah."

[Crumb]

Jump about a minute in if the time link doesn't work.

Jim Causes Chaos at the Church Fête | The Vicar...

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Määrä (amount) is one word that's 60% ä (3/5)
määrätä (to instruct or specify) has 4/7 ä
Lots of words have 4 ä: päättää (to decide) äänestää (to vote) kääntää (to turn/translate) päästää (to let go) säästää (to save) säätää (to adjust)
määränpää (destination) 5/9 ä
äänimäärä (number of votes) same
äänimäärää ("partitive" object form of the same word) 6/10

So a reasonable phrase, to decide the destination:
päättää määränpäästä
10 äs.

Found in the wild (on L*****In):
eipä meillä ole muuta mahdollisuutta kuin istua kyytiin ja päästä määränpäähän
we have no choice but to get on board and get to our destination

9 ä:s, 9 other letters