A revolution in thought

[Dragar]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I don't understand all of your math abstractions, and I know that you know this which is why you're using it.

Then why do you understand your crackpot? Because he's using this stuff too - only he doesn't understand it properly, so he's getting it wrong.

Bottom line: I believe what Savain has observed.

He hasn't observed anything! He's done a bad derivation using some bad maths!

I've already told you the problem in simple terms: your crackpot doesn't understand how relativity works, or how to do vector calculus. Arguably he doesn't even understand basic reasoning.

Example: why does he claim a velocity of one means no movement, peacegirl? Isn't zero velocity be no movement?

(And it should be c, the speed of light - but he misses that out from his vector, because he doesn't understand natural units. And then he complains about his answer having no units. What an idiot.)

Bottom line: you believe him because you like his conclusions, not because you understand a thing he says.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Dragar

Then why do you understand your crackpot? Because he's using this stuff too - only he doesn't understand it properly, so he's getting it wrong.

I do not believe in a block universe where time runs on a 4th dimension. All we have is the present; time measures or observes changes from moment to moment (in the present). What has already happened we call the past, and what has not yet happened we call the future. It is illusory to think that there is an actual past and future such that we could could actually access these time frames that DON'T EXIST. There is no proof of this other than mathematical tricks and mental constructs that have no basis in reality.

Bottom line: I believe what Savain has observed.

Originally Posted by Dragar

He hasn't observed anything! He's done a bad derivation using some bad maths!

I've already told you the problem in simple terms: your crackpot doesn't understand how relativity works, or how to do vector calculus. Arguably he doesn't even understand basic reasoning.

Example: why does he claim a velocity of one means no movement, peacegirl? Isn't zero velocity be no movement?

(And it should be c, the speed of light - but he misses that out from his vector, because he doesn't understand natural units. And then he complains about his answer having no units. What an idiot.)

Bottom line: you believe him because you like his conclusions, not because you understand a thing he says.

Whatever you say Dragar! We are entitled to our differing views. You take the first view; I take the second.

Time is a dimension in which events can be ordered from the past through the present into the future,[1][2][3][4][5][6] and also the measure of durations of events and the intervals between them.[3][7][8] Time has long been a major subject of study in religion, philosophy, and science, but defining it in a manner applicable to all fields without circularity has consistently eluded scholars.[3][7][8][9][10][11] Nevertheless, diverse fields such as business, industry, sports, the sciences, and the performing arts all incorporate some notion of time into their respective measuring systems.[12][13][14] Some simple, relatively uncontroversial definitions of time include "time is what clocks measure"[7][15] and "time is what keeps everything from happening at once".[16][17][18][19]

Two contrasting viewpoints on time divide many prominent philosophers. One view is that time is part of the fundamental structure of the universe—a dimension independent of events, in which events occur in sequence. Sir Isaac Newton subscribed to this realist view, and hence it is sometimes referred to as Newtonian time.[20][21] The opposing view is that time does not refer to any kind of "container" that events and objects "move through", nor to any entity that "flows", but that it is instead part of a fundamental intellectual structure (together with space and number) within which humans sequence and compare events. This second view, in the tradition of Gottfried Leibniz[15] and Immanuel Kant,[22][23] holds that time is neither an event nor a thing, and thus is not itself measurable nor can it be travelled.

Time is one of the seven fundamental physical quantities in the International System of Units. Time is used to define other quantities—such as velocity—so defining time in terms of such quantities would result in circularity of definition.[24] An operational definition of time, wherein one says that observing a certain number of repetitions of one or another standard cyclical event (such as the passage of a free-swinging pendulum) constitutes one standard unit such as the second, is highly useful in the conduct of both advanced experiments and everyday affairs of life. The operational definition leaves aside the question whether there is something called time, apart from the counting activity just mentioned, that flows and that can be measured. Investigations of a single continuum called spacetime bring questions about space into questions about time, questions that have their roots in the works of early students of natural philosophy.

Furthermore, it may be that there is a subjective component to time, but whether or not time itself is "felt", as a sensation, or is a judgement, is a matter of debate.[3][7][8][25][26]

Time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Dragar]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I do not believe in a block universe where time runs on a 4th dimension.

Yes, I know you like the things he says. I want to know why you think he's any sort of authority, particularly given that he gets all this maths wrong. Having him echo your own opinions is one answer - is that really why?

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Whatever you say Dragar! We are entitled to our differing views. You take the first view; I take the second.

That's right, don't engage with the discussion! Just deflect and weasel rather than answering any specific objections or actually trying to learn something.

You're so incredibly dishonest and hypocritical it astounds me sometimes.

By the by, your wikipedia quote contradicts your own posts:

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I reject that this observation proves that time is a 4th dimension

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Time is a dimension...

Do you read anything you even copypasta?

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

And you Lone Ranger? Are you exempt from this attitude that you keep attributing to me? You argue with me because I'm a lay person. You have not taken one thing that my father discovered with any seriousness because you have decided that he wasn't a "professional", therefore there isn't anything to learn.

What a contemptible liar you are. None of what you just typed is true, and you know that perfectly well.

People (myself certainly included) have been all but begging you for some actual evidence for your claims since you've gotten here. Not only have you refused to provide it, you have openly and repeatedly admitted that you have no interest in examining the evidence against Lessans' claims, and that you have no intentions of doing so.


You are a lying liar, and a world-class hypocrite.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

What a contemptible liar you are. None of what you just typed is true, and you know that perfectly well.

People (myself certainly included) have been all but begging you for some actual evidence for your claims since you've gotten here. Not only have you refused to provide it, you have openly and repeatedly admitted that you have no interest in examining the evidence against Lessans' claims, and that you have no intentions of doing so.

What you are saying is absolutely not true. I understand the evidence against Lessans' claims, but that in itself does not mean he was wrong. It just means there is evidence against him. Just because Lessans made observations that could not easily be tested empirically (the "scientific" method), does not mean his observations were meaningless. He gave a demonstration as to what he believed was going on, and he also encouraged people to do their own investigation. I just gave an idea for an experiment that could easily be set up. If it turns out to be true, this would support Lessans' claim. Why don't you try it, or have your students try it? Somebody must have a watchdog. We could then perform a makeshift experiment.

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

You are a lying liar, and a world-class hypocrite.

All I can say is it takes one to know one.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Dragar

Yes, I know you like the things he says. I want to know why you think he's any sort of authority, particularly given that he gets all this maths wrong. Having him echo your own opinions is one answer - is that really why?

That's right, don't engage with the discussion! Just deflect and weasel rather than answering any specific objections or actually trying to learn something.

You're so incredibly dishonest and hypocritical it astounds me sometimes.

By the by, your wikipedia quote contradicts your own posts:

Do you read anything you even copypasta?

Physicists continue work to abolish time as fourth dimension of space

[The Lone Ranger]

As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, a lot of the experiments you demand have already been done. Indeed, many of them are done on a daily basis. You refuse to accept the results, however, since they don't conform to your prejudices.

You are indeed a liar and a hypocrite.

All I can say is it takes one to know one.

If you weren't mentally ill, you'd be a truly contemptible person.

[Dragar]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Physicists continue work to abolish time as fourth dimension of space

So no, you don't bother reading at all. I bet I've done more research in the last few minutes than you have into what you just posted. (Side note: these authors are happy publishing their work on viXra, the independent crackpot version of the arxiv, which wikipedia helpfully explains: "The viXra covers science and mathematics and caters for the whole scientific community. It accepts submissions without requiring authors to have an academic affiliation and without any threshold for quality." )

You just frantically grab anything that matches your beliefs and glom onto it, don't you? Good job.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

All I can say is it takes one to know one.

O. M. Goodness, Peacegirl has just notched the dialogue up a bit, we are at least up to first grade Playground tactics. A few more notches and maybe she will be capable of understanding the arguments against her fathers book.

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I do not believe in a block universe where time runs on a 4th dimension.

In other words, you don't understand what Savain is saying or why he's saying it. You've latched on to Savain because you think he supports your preconceived beliefs about how the universe works. It's just like when you cite holocaust deniers and Scientology front groups in support of your other preconceived beliefs.

After such a cycle repeats a time or three, a reasonable person might be thinking along the lines of, "Hmmm ... if the only sources I can marshal in support of these beliefs are the products of crazies, charlatans and/or moral bankrupts, then maybe it's time to reassess the beliefs." You, of course, are not a reasonable person.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Well that's confusing. You claim that dogs can't associate a set of facial features with their beloved master, but you believe they can associate a hand signal with a learned behavior? How does that work if the eyes are not a sense organ?

Of a more personal interest to me, can docs recognize friends and relatives from a photograph, if their eyes are not sense organs. I need to take a closer look at BrotherMan's avatar.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, a lot of the experiments you demand have already been done. Indeed, many of them are done on a daily basis. You refuse to accept the results, however, since they don't conform to your prejudices.

You are indeed a liar and a hypocrite.

No Lone Ranger. You don't get to call the shots. The tests have not been done to my satisfaction. And even if you felt they have been done, what's the harm in doing more experiments that would put this argument to rest? Isn't that what you want?

All I can say is it takes one to know one.

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

If you weren't mentally ill, you'd be a truly contemptible person.

Well I'm not mentally ill. I am just refuting what I believe to be a mistake on the part of science. And I have good reason. If you think I'm contemptible, then stop communicating with me.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Dragar

So no, you don't bother reading at all. I bet I've done more research in the last few minutes than you have into what you just posted. (Side note: these authors are happy publishing their work on viXra, the independent crackpot version of the arxiv, which wikipedia helpfully explains: "The viXra covers science and mathematics and caters for the whole scientific community. It accepts submissions without requiring authors to have an academic affiliation and without any threshold for quality." )

You just frantically grab anything that matches your beliefs and glom onto it, don't you? Good job.

Just because they accept submissions without requiring authors to have an academic affiliation is refreshing. This is exactly what happened to my dad all through his life. He could not get an audience, nor could he get conventionally published only because he was judged by a false standard of what qualified as worthy material. And the standard used was that a person had to be affiliated with an academic institution. If it was up to this group, I wouldn't have a chance bringing this knowledge to light. Thank goodness it's not up to you. Kudos to viXra for recognizing that quality submissions can come from anywhere and by anyone.

http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=2472

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

The tests have not been done to my satisfaction.

Ding ding ding ding! That's the key phrase right there. You won't be satisfied with experiments -- no matter how carefully they are done -- until and unless they produce the results that you want them to produce. That's what makes you a hypocrite and a liar when you claim that you're actually interested in the results of experiments that test Lessans' claims.

And even if you felt they have been done, where's the harm in doing experiments that would confirm the results?

As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, these experiments are being done. On a daily basis, in fact. If they produced the results Lessans said they would, this would be big and exciting news. The scientific community would be falling over itself in its excitement and in its eagerness to investigate this totally new and unexpected phenomenon.

And you could easily confirm this for yourself if you'd do one iota of honest research. But you won't, because you're only interested in evidence that [you think] supports Lessans' claims. As you've repeatedly stated (and even more often demonstrated) you have no interest in the actual evidence vis-a-vis Lessans' claims.


Sadly for you, the experiments keep producing results that you don't like. So you reject them without even bothering to familiarize yourself with them, how they were done, or what the actual results might be.

Well I'm not mentally ill.

The available evidence suggests this is a delusion on your part.

I am just refuting what I believe to be a mistake on the part of science.

Yet, in all this time, you have yet to provide a single piece of evidence to back this claim.

And I have good reason.

If by "good reason," you mean "because I believe my Daddy was infallible," then you're correct. Otherwise, you've yet to provide a single piece of evidence to back that claim, despite numerous requests.

If you think I'm contemptible, then stop communicating with me.

If you continue to insist on lying about my field of endeavor, I have not just a responsibility, but a duty to point out your lies and misinformation.

Contrary to what you appear to believe, it isn't about you in the slightest.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Well I'm not mentally ill.

I'm afraid you are, Peacegirl. You are not well. You need help. The more time you spend here, the more you lie, evade, and weasel. You continue posting nonsense purely because you know it will get you attention. You don't need to keep doing this.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

Ding ding ding ding! That's the key phrase right there. You won't be satisfied with experiments -- no matter how carefully they are done -- until and unless they produce the results that you want them to produce. That's what makes you a hypocrite and a liar when you claim that you're actually interested in the results of experiments that test Lessans' claims.

Lone Ranger, what are you afraid of? Why can't you humour me by agreeing to do the tests, even if it's to satisfy my need to have confirmation?

And even if you felt they have been done, where's the harm in doing experiments that would confirm the results?

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, these experiments are being done. On a daily basis, in fact. If they produced the results Lessans said they would, this would be big and exciting news. The scientific community would be falling over itself in its excitement and in its eagerness to investigate this totally new and unexpected phenomenon.

But they haven't produced the results because they aren't looking in the same direction as my father did. What is so hard for you to get?

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

And you could easily confirm this for yourself if you'd do one iota of honest research. But you won't, because you're only interested in evidence that [you think] supports Lessans' claims. As you've repeatedly stated (and even more often demonstrated) you have no interest in the actual evidence vis-a-vis Lessans' claims.

I do have an interest, but I think it's biased. Until I see the results for myself, and they are replicated, I will maintain that he was right.

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

Sadly for you, the experiments keep producing results that you don't like. So you reject them without even bothering to familiarize yourself with them, how they were done, or what the actual results might be.

Not true. I just don't believe the tests done are conclusive.

Well I'm not mentally ill.

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

The available evidence suggests this is a delusion on your part.

Nope, I'm not delusional either. Maybe you are the one with the problem. Ever think of that?

I am just refuting what I believe to be a mistake on the part of science.

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

Yet, in all this time, you have yet to provide a single piece of evidence to back this claim.

Do you even know what his observations were, or what he demonstrated is actually occurring? Can you even explain it? Maybe you can't see what he saw, and maybe he didn't provide the empirical evidence that you expect, but that still does not mean that his observations were inaccurate.

And I have good reason.

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

If by "good reason," you mean "because I believe my Daddy was infallible," then you're correct. Otherwise, you've yet to provide a single piece of evidence to back that claim, despite numerous requests.

To repeat: He did not provide empirical evidence to back his claim, but his observations were well founded. Instead of rejecting his findings, why not keep an open mind instead of telling me he was wrong?

If you think I'm contemptible, then stop communicating with me.

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

If you continue to insist on lying about my field of endeavor, I have not just a responsibility, but a duty to point out your lies and misinformation.

Contrary to what you appear to believe, it isn't about you in the slightest.

You are misguided. If you believe it's your duty to point out misinformation (which you don't know for sure; the irony ), then you can do it without talking to me directly.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

I'm afraid you are, Peacegirl. You are not well. You need help. The more time you spend here, the more you lie, evade, and weasel. You continue posting nonsense purely because you know it will get you attention. You don't need to keep doing this.

You are worse than NA. You are a broken record and beyond any rational discussion.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

You are worse than NA. You are a broken record and beyond any rational discussion.

Being here is not good for you, Peacegirl. You have a problem. You've admitted repeatedly that being here is not productive, and you have tried and failed to leave several times. You have a problem. You know your behaviour is not normal. You know you are not being reasonable. You know that all you do is repeatedly take other people's criticisms and defensively try to throw them back at others. You know you have a problem. Talk to your family. Ask them for help. Ask anyone. Find something productive to do with what is left of your life. Spending all of your free time arguing with people who think you are nuts and who you will never convince is not a normal hobby. It is not productive. You have a problem. It is time for you to do something about it.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

Being here is not good for you, Peacegirl. You have a problem. You've admitted repeatedly that being here is not productive, and you have tried and failed to leave several times. You have a problem. You know your behaviour is not normal. You know you are not being reasonable. You know that all you do is repeatedly take other people's criticisms and defensively try to throw them back at others. You know you have a problem. Talk to your family. Ask them for help. Ask anyone. Find something productive to do with what is left of your life. Spending all of your free time arguing with people who think you are nuts and who you will never convince is not a normal hobby. It is not productive. You have a problem. It is time for you to do something about it.

Keep saying the same thing over and over like a broken record, and maybe you'll convince yourself! Instead of lurking in here, find other things to do. You have been obsessed with me for over 3 years. It's high time you find another outlet for your frustration. You won't get this time back. Your posts are getting more and more deranged. This is very unproductive and it certainly isn't normal. You have a problem for sure. It is high time you do something about it. Srsly, go do your legos. Find another hobby besides waiting for me online so you can post the same friggin thing every single day, and you'll be a lot saner.

[Dragar]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Kudos to viXra for recognizing that quality submissions can come from anywhere and by anyone.

Ways Around Peer Review: viXra vs. arXiv; Plus, a Saturday Bonus! | William M. Briggs

You really don't read what you link to, do you? At least this time you're right - 'quality' submissions can certainly be made by anyone to viXra!

Then there is the paper by our Lord, Jesus Christ: “Decision Making and Decision System Support” (pdf), a follow up to His “Why You Should not Maximize Utility: Implications for Social Virtue” (pdf). “This book in this link is actually a thesis written and dictated and instructed by authority that is Me, Jesus Christ, in order you can do your repentance properly as a society…Please tweet and distribute this message to as many countries as you can including all your friends quickly, I repeat quickly, today.”

At least I can say that I have fulfilled that last duty. JC, incidentally, is a frequent contributer to the—where else?—”Religion and Spiritualism” section.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Keep saying the same thing over and over like a broken record, and maybe you'll convince yourself! Instead of lurking in here, find other things to do. You have been obsessed with me for over 3 years. It's high time you find another outlet for your frustration. You won't get this time back. Your posts are getting more and more deranged. This is very unproductive and it certainly isn't normal. You have a problem for sure. It is high time you do something about it. Srsly, go do your legos. Find another hobby besides waiting for me online so you can post the same friggin thing every single day, and you'll be a lot saner.

More defensive projection. Why don't you take your own advice and do something productive with your time? Seriously, read your own words above. You know they apply more to you than to anyone else here.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

No one said a working time machine is actually known to exist.

Then why did you say I was mistaken, wrong in my conclusions, and ask if I was kidding you when I posted that exact same sentence?

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I do have an interest, but I think it's biased. Until I see the results for myself, and they are replicated, I will maintain that he was right.

Translation, - Only when Peacegirl sees test results that support her daddy's claims, will she accept those results as valid and unbiased.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

But they haven't produced the results because they aren't looking in the same direction as my father did. What is so hard for you to get?

Actually many of the experimenters are looking in the same direction as Lessans was, and that is to disprove the existing theories and discover new knowledge. Unfortunately, (for Peacegirl) none of the test results have even suggested that Lessans had it right, or even the slightest bit of knowledge on the subject. Lessans was playing a game of "Wouldn't it be nice" and then trying to fit his claims into his fantasy scenario, without any regard for reality.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

More defensive projection. Why don't you take your own advice and do something productive with your time? Seriously, read your own words above. You know they apply more to you than to anyone else here.

You are totally out the door Spacemonkey. I have no idea why you are stuck on this thread. I'm laughing.