A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

[davidm]

I assume LS didn't mean to thank peacegirl's post, but only N.A.'s reply to her. We wouldn't want peacegirl getting confused, after all!

[naturalist.atheist]

Originally Posted by davidm

I assume LS didn't mean to thank peacegirl's post, but only N.A.'s reply to her. We wouldn't want peacegirl getting confused, after all!

I don't think there is anything that can be done about peacegirls confusion.

[naturalist.atheist]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

But there is a better way of explaining the concept. Nobody that accepts the standard model of vision explains it that way. Why do you insist on it?

You aren't explaining anything yet. How can we see full spectrum light on Earth when empirical tests prove that some wavelengths are removed when it interacts with matter or is filtered by the atmosphere.

Do you know what spectroscopy is? Do you know we can measure the spectrum?

The whole last sentence is Blah blah blah butthurt

and of course there is this niggling detail being overlooked. The light from the sun as it reaches everyone's eyes on earth is not full spectrum, otherwise the sun would appear white instead of yellow. Not to mention that often it turns red at sunset.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by naturalist.atheist

I don't think there is anything that can be done about peacegirls confusion.

Shut up already with your lame posts. They are truly fantastical with absolutely no basis in reality. Are you on hallucinogens? You're the one that needs to be psychoanalyzed.

[ThreeLawsSafe]

Originally Posted by naturalist.atheist

It appears that peacegirl thinks that if she sends everyone out to gather evidence that continues to verify that she and Lessans are wrong that this will change our minds.

That is either how crazy or stupid she is.

Every human being demonstrates cognitive bias on a constant basis. Some people are more prone to one type of bias over another. Peacegirl's favorite flavor is Escalation of Commitment. That doesn't make her crazy, just irrational, same as everyone else. Even and especially you, naturalist.atheist.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by naturalist.atheist

and of course there is this niggling detail being overlooked. The light from the sun as it reaches everyone's eyes on earth is not full spectrum, otherwise the sun would appear white instead of yellow. Not to mention that often it turns red at sunset.

You are literally LOST IN SPACE. GIVE IT UP ALREADY!!!

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by ThreeLawsSafe

Every human being demonstrates cognitive bias on a constant basis. Some people are more prone to one type of bias over another. Peacegirl's favorite flavor is Escalation of Commitment. That doesn't make her crazy, just irrational, same as everyone else. Even and especially you, naturalist.atheist.

Whoaaaaaa ThreeLawsSafe, before you start dispensing your flavor of psychobabble, explain to me where I am being biased? Own your answers, okay, or you will be just another person who claims Lessans is wrong with no proof.

[naturalist.atheist]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Whoaaaaaa ThreeLawsSafe, before you start dispensing your flavor of psychobabble, explain to me where I am being biased? Own your answers, okay, or you will be just another person who claims Lessans is wrong with no proof.

yeah ThreeLawsSafe, explain it to her. Lets see the difference between bias and illness.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by naturalist.atheist

yeah ThreeLawsSafe, explain it to her. Lets see the difference between bias and illness.

You're sick in the head NA, face it, and what you're trying to do is project your crazy unprovable thought system onto me. Little did you know that you're not God and your thought system is flawed. CAN EVERYONE SEE THE LIGHT THAT IS REVEALING THE TRUTH? NOT FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE THIS GUY WHO IS PERFECT, JUST LIKE HUBBARD IN SCIENTOLOGY. IT ISN'T HARD TO SEE THAT YOU'RE A FRAUD ONCE PEOPLE GET THE HANG OF IT.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Whoaaaaaa ThreeLawsSafe, before you start dispensing your flavor of psychobabble, explain to me where I am being biased? Own your answers, okay, or you will be just another person who claims Lessans is wrong with no proof.

You've been given enough proof that the buffoon Lessans was wrong to choke a herd of elephants, you goofball. BTW, did you actually read the BAUT forum thread?

Oh, and ThreeLawsSafe? See what you are dealing with?

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

You're sick NA, face it, and what you're doping is projecting your thought system onto me. But your thought system is flawwed. CAN EVERYONE SEE THE LIGHT THAT IS REVEALING THE TRUTH? IT ISN'T HARD TO SEE ONCE YOU GET THE HANG OF IT.

You appear to be sailing over the edge now. Is this "see the light" shit the opening salvo of the religious faith phase of your delusions?

[ThreeLawsSafe]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Whoaaaaaa ThreeLawsSafe, before you start dispensing your flavor of psychobabble, explain to me where I am being biased? Own your answers, okay, or you will be just another person who claims Lessans is wrong with no proof.

Cognitive biases are not psychobabble. Most of the known cognitive biases have plenty of verification in peer-reviewed experimentation with repeated results.

I think you're holding tightly to a perspective that, by your own admission, has been falsified, numerous times over, by LadyShea, SpaceMonkey, DavidM, and others. This includes people with expertise in relevant fields, such as astronomy. Your refusal to admit to that falsification is an Escalation of Commitment.

[ThreeLawsSafe]

Originally Posted by naturalist.atheist

yeah ThreeLawsSafe, explain it to her. Lets see the difference between bias and illness.

naturalist atheist -- outside of of mathematics and programming, you are a true mental strug.

[davidm]

Now, now, ThreeLawsSafe, there you go with the insults, you are better than that!

[ThreeLawsSafe]

Originally Posted by davidm

Now, now, ThreeLawsSafe, there you go with the insults, you are better than that!

Nah, we're a tough crowd.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by naturalist.atheist

I don't think there is anything that can be done about peacegirls confusion.

NA needs to be put somewhere where he can't use his lay terms to misdiagnose people in the name of knowledge. He is the worst type of individual you could encounter because of his deceptiveness which makes him appear as someone he's not. He just happens to be in the scientific community, but he's no different than someone on the street who plays this kind of game to get what he wants.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by ThreeLawsSafe

Cognitive biases are not psychobabble. Most of the known cognitive biases have plenty of verification in peer-reviewed experimentation with repeated results.

I think you're holding tightly to a perspective that, by your own admission, has been falsified, numerous times over, by LadyShea, SpaceMonkey, DavidM, and others. This includes people with expertise in relevant fields, such as astronomy. Your refusal to admit to that falsification is an Escalation of Commitment.

If you follow the link there is also Red Queen's Hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
which is very interesting as it mentions an 'evolutionary arms race', that can be seen right here in these 2 threads, the more compeling the evidence against Lessans/Peacegirl the more virulent are her responses. Considering the length of the threads and the gradual nature of the increase it seems to fit the discription.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by ThreeLawsSafe

naturalist atheist -- outside of of mathematics and programming, you are a true mental strug.

You're really good at making friends aren't you. HA, been there, done that.

[davidm]

My, my, calling for people to be put away now, are we, peacegirl? That's some Golden Age you have going. But come to think of it, I do believe Lessans had some stuff about what to do with non-believers in the New World.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

NA needs to be put somewhere where he can't use his lay terms to misdiagnose people in the name of knowledge. He is the worst type of individual you could encounter because of his deceptiveness which makes him appear as someone he's not. He just happens to be in the scientific community, but he's no different than someone on the street who plays this kind of game to get what he wants.

And just 'what' do you think he's going to gain by playing this 'game'.

[ThreeLawsSafe]

Originally Posted by thedoc

You're really good at making friends aren't you. HA, been there, done that.

Sure, I have a lot of friends. Are you confusing an internet forum with the real world here, thedoc?

I think my original point stands. We can't evaluate a person's mental health or illness on a forum board. We also can't really determine basic personality traits, such as whether a person has friends or not. We might be able to evaluate a certain level or kind of intelligence, or the presence of certain cognitive biases in their writing, but that's about all.

[ThreeLawsSafe]

Originally Posted by thedoc

If you follow the link there is also Red Queen's Hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
which is very interesting as it mentions an 'evolutionary arms race', that can be seen right here in these 2 threads, the more compeling the evidence against Lessans/Peacegirl the more virulent are her responses. Considering the length of the threads and the gradual nature of the increase it seems to fit the discription.

I think you're right on target here. My own personal opinion is that a great variety of our biases develop from our shared evolutionary heritage. The evolutionary process affects not only physical development, but psychological development and traits as well. Evolutionary psychology shows this fairly consistently.

[davidm]

It might be worth pointing out that the value of evolutionary psychology is rather disputed even among biologists. Maybe TLR could shed some light on this.

peacegirl, rather than lashing out at people here, you ought to thank each and every one of us. We have gone way, way out of our way to to bring you to reason. Lessans' claims about light and sight are wrong. We have shown this to you in hundreds of different ways. We have given you an education, had you chosen to avail yourself of it.

You have been doing this for ten years, and have not converted a single person, have you? And everywhere you go, people tell you the same things, and show you the same evidence and proof over and over. We have no personal stake in any of this. It's not Lessans vs. us. It's Lessans vs. reality. Reality always wins.

If you would let go at least of this irrational commitment to the infallibility of Lessans, and recognize that at least with respect to light and sight, he was as wrong as can be, then you can go about the task of seeing whether he at least had philosophical insights worth preserving and promoting. As several people have patiently explained to you, the idea that that mind imposes value judgements of questionable worth on the external world can be defended without the completely bogus claim that we see in real time -- which, after all, seems to have no connection whatsoever to imposing values on what is seen, even if it were true (and it isn't.)

Also, clinging to false and irrational views of the world is inherently unhealthy, IMO. If you would accept the proof given you that Lessans was wrong and get on with life, you would likely be much happier.

Alternatively, if you are not willing or able to do that, then I suggest you turn Lessanism into a religion and try to evangelize it over the Internet. Although I suspect making money off your father's book is not your main goal, it is, I think, at least one of your subsidiary goals. The way to do this is to declare Lessanism faith-based and impervious to evidential refutations of it, and then find non-skeptics who are amenable to believing woo. You might even succeed, the way that L. Ron Hubbard succeeded, and make a fortune.

[LadyShea]

peacegirl is well aware of the sunk cost aspect of her continuing here. Also I have always perceived her as a True Believer and read her obtuseness as therefore purposeful...can't let things through the wall of faith.

Also ThreeLawsSafe, note that she is convinced that if Lessans Golden Age were to come to be, nobody would have bad personalities, nobody would be overweight, almost all illnesses including mental illness would disappear, and the incidence of homosexuality would be drastically reduced somehow due to lack of blame.

[ThreeLawsSafe]

Originally Posted by davidm

It might be worth pointing out that the value of evolutionary psychology is rather disputed even among biologists. Maybe TLR could shed some light on this.

peacegirl, rather than lashing out at people here, you ought to thank each and every one of us. We have gone way, way out of our way to to bring you to reason. Lessans' claims about light and sight are wrong. We have shown this to you in hundreds of different ways. We have given you an education, had you chosen to avail yourself of it.

You have been doing this for ten years, and have not converted a single person, have you? And everywhere you go, people tell you the same things, and show you the same evidence and proof over and over. We have no personal stake in any of this. It's not Lessans vs. us. It's Lessans vs. reality. Reality always wins.

If you would let go at least of this irrational commitment to the infallibility of Lessans, and recognize that at least with respect to light and sight, he was as wrong as can be, then you can go about the task of seeing whether he at least had philosophical insights worth preserving and promoting. As several people have patiently explained to you, the idea that that mind imposes value judgements of questionable worth on the external world can be defended without the completely bogus claim that we see in real time -- which, after all, seems to have no connection whatsoever to imposing values on what is seen, even if it were true (and it isn't.)

Also, clinging to false and irrational views of the world is inherently unhealthy, IMO. If you would accept the proof given you that Lessans was wrong and get on with life, you would likely be much happier.
K
Alternatively, if you are not willing or able to do that, then I suggest you turn Lessanism into a religion and try to evangelize it over the Internet. Although I suspect making money off your father's book is not your main goal, it is, I think, at least one of your subsidiary goals. The way to do this is to declare Lessanism faith-based and impervious to evidential refutations of it, and then find non-skeptics who are amenable to believing woo. You might even succeed, the way that L. Ron Hubbard succeeded, and make a fortune.

Davidm- if you'd like to debate the merits of evolutionary psychology in another thread, I'd be happy to oblige.