What to do when dogs kill other dogs

freemonkey · #1 04-11-2012, 02:59 AM

My neighborhood is a little odd, it's hard to fence our yards and sometimes our dogs wander. One neighbor has (had) a small, friendly dog called Tony. Another neighbor (who I don't actually know) has a pit bull*. A couple years ago the pit bull got hold of Tony and almost killed him. After a lot of money and pain, Tony managed to pulled through. I don't know if anyone called animal control, but the pit bull got a reprieve.

Tony's owner put up a small fence to keep her dog better contained. She also has a young granddaughter who visits and she wanted to have a safety barrier to protect her, too.

So, this afternoon, Tony got out of his yard and the pit bull got him and killed him. My friend doesn't want to make the call, she's going to ask her vet to do it. But I'm wondering if I should call, as well. My dog is older and doesn't move very quickly, so I'm a little concerned for her safety.

On the other hand, I hate for someone to lose her dog. Don't know what to do and could use some input.

* I have nothing against pit bulls.

lisarea · #2 04-11-2012, 03:11 AM

Oh, god, poor Tony.

Do you know what your aggressive animal laws are in your area? They vary quite a bit, and it's not always a given that a dog aggressive dog will be taken away. It also might make a difference if the dog is contained. I think that most aggressive animal regulations make exceptions for dogs attacking another animal that gets into its yard.

THAT SAID, if I had a dog that had hurt anyone, including another animal, it wouldn't have been outside by itself again even if my dog weren't legally at fault in that case; and that lack of oversight is a real matter for concern that you totally should bring up with animal control.

freemonkey · #3 04-11-2012, 04:04 AM

I'm calling the Humane Society tomorrow, and the neighbor's daughters are calling the police tomorrow. Apparently, this dog attacked another dog last summer.

thedoc · #4 04-11-2012, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freemonkey

* I have nothing against pit bulls.

you are right it's not the breed but the way the individual dog is raised, and this owner needs to be brought to account for his dogs actions, If necessary the dog needs to be put down.

ZEZOZE · #5 04-11-2012, 10:31 AM

though i agree it is not the breed that makes for an aggressive dog, why do people insist on owning such powerful and potentially dangerous beasts? maybe these breeds get a bad reputation because when they do attack the potential for hurting or killing their target is much greater? when a chihuahua attacks it rarely makes the news. it's interesting that the breeds with the worst reputations are also the breeds people buy to use as guard or attack dogs, or to give them tough street cred.

LadyShea · #6 04-11-2012, 01:52 PM

So the pit bull is free roaming even after several attacks? That's not a conscientious dog owner. You don't have to fence the whole yard to make a dog run, or one can keep a dog inside except when it is walked on a leash.

Unfortunately the dogs are paying the price for human lack of giving a shit. Sad situation.

freemonkey · #7 04-11-2012, 04:55 PM

The home the pit bull lives in is a rented mobile home. There is some suspicion of drug activity there and this is not the first aggressive dog she's had in that house (according to the other neighbor). The dog doesn't roam, she claims he breaks his collars (her last aggressive dog kept breaking his chains).

Yesterday, she said she'd had him out on the leash and just taken him into the house and unleashed him when he slipped past her out the door and grabbed Tony. She had to fight him to get poor Tony away from him, and she got bit in the process.

Pit bull's owner thinks maybe he thought Tony was a toy or prey, or something. I can kind of understand that, I've seen my dog kill birds and a rat, and I'd say it's 50/50 she'd kill the the stray cat I feed if she could catch it (even though she has 2 cats of her own).

LadyShea · #8 04-11-2012, 05:02 PM

Some dogs have a high prey drive and have to be monitored. I can see an attack, but 3 known attacks means she doesn't have an efficient system of control (close the door before removing the leash, for example).

Also chained dogs are the most likely to bite, they really need to be contained by a fence. We put up a chain link dog run at a rental, and when we moved took it down and took it with us. It can be done.

Demimonde · #9 04-11-2012, 08:17 PM

Dante was attacked by a rotty who lived across the street from us the day we moved into our house. The rotty, Beau, had gotten through the neighbor's decrepit fence and attacked Dante while he was being walked on leash down the street. He grabbed Dante by the hind quarter and dragged him so violently it broke his collar. Dante got free and ran home but the Rotty turned on Contra. Dante ran back to protect him and then Beau got Dante by the throat. Thank God Contra was walking him, because he was able to grab the dog and stabilize his head and prevent a death shake. My boy was one shake away from a broken neck and probably being gone forever. It took over five minutes before Contra was able to get Dante free from his jaws.

In cases like that, there are always excuses. The big one we got was "Oh it isn't my dog, it belongs to my ex" as well as "I patched the fence so he shouldn't have gotten out." Yeah, stacking some pallets against the fence is not a "patch." The neighbor's said they would put Beau down, but then they changed their minds. He was taken away for a while but returned again and again. Eventually they put him on a chain. I felt so bad for that dog, he was already neglected and left alone in the yard 24/7, not socialized, not worked with, which is why he was crazy. Then he got put on a chain so he had even less of a life or comfort.

It was horrible having that dog across the street after that. Dante was absolutely terrified of him. We would have to pull the car around to the side yard and take him out the back to go anywhere, because seeing that dog put him into hysterics. We also couldn't go for walks leaving by the front door without him going into total fear mode. He would actually start screaming, there is no other word for that terrifying and heart breaking sound he would make. And whenever there was a southern wind, Dante could smell him even in the back yard. Both of our houses are adjacent to a side street that is a block down from a school and every day Beau would bark and act aggressively as the kids walked to and from. It always worried me.

We called the city but no one ever investigated. In keeping him as they did, they broke no laws. A couple of years later they did change it so that chaining was made illegal. I really celebrated that law because I find chains so inhumane. After that Beau went away. I am not sure whether he died, was put down, or went to live with the mythical ex. I am glad he is gone for Dante's sake, but I was so sad Beau had such a wasted life.

I am so sorry for Tony's family, freemonkey. The fact that this is the second time it has happened makes it all the worse. I would encourage contacting the authorities so it does not happen again. Because I do not think you can trust the neighbor to do what it takes to control and contain her dog after this. She definitely needs a wake up call. I know what it is like to live with a dog like that nearby. It isn't good for anyone. If the authorities can do something, I would get them involved.

Ari · #10 04-11-2012, 08:31 PM

There are people who shouldn't have dogs. Many of the violent dogs I've known have been neglected or poorly treated by their owners. Dogs are really about pack/family and taking that away makes them a bit crazy.

As a general note PepperSpray works just as effectively on dogs as humans and is nonlethal. A spray to the face will blind and confuse and can be used preemptively.

lisarea · #11 04-11-2012, 10:05 PM

The dog that attacked my son had attacked another little boy some time before that. After the first attack, the owners could have taken measures to better contain and manage their dog, take him to a behaviorist, stuff like that. Instead, they made excuses and blamed the kid and came up with all kinds of scenarios in which it wasn't the dog's (or their) fault.

So, predictably, it happened again, and the dog was taken away and put to sleep. That wasn't my son's fault or my fault or even the dog's fault. I don't feel guilty about it at all. I wasn't going to live next door to someone who tried to kill my child. And at that point, the dog was miserable, unhappy, and a danger to everyone around him, so it really was the only safe, humane choice for everyone concerned, including the dog.

So if the dog does get removed and put to sleep, that's not your fault at all. The owner hasn't taken sufficient steps to manage and control the dog yet, so she's probably not about to start now, especially if she's still making excuses.

freemonkey · #12 04-11-2012, 11:35 PM

I called the Humane Society, and they really aren't much help. They referred me to an incident report form that I have to print and mail back. But here is one of the statement requirements: "They must be based on first-hand observation; not the word/opinion of others."

Since I was not there either time, I can't give a statement, and they are not able to listen to my concerns or complaint over the phone. But I do have the email addresses for some of the enforcement officers, so I'll write them, though I don't know what good it will do.

Tony's owner's family are telling me they will make a report, but it may take a few days before she feels up to it. They took pictures of him before they took him to the vet for cremation.

LadyShea · #13 04-11-2012, 11:43 PM

Is the humane society an enforcement agency in your area? Are they your animal control?

Because seriously, as someone who lives in the neighborhood, you should be able to report an aggressive animal...in an effort to protect yourself if nothing else.

Also has anyone thought to contact the landlord?

freemonkey · #14 04-12-2012, 12:03 AM

The Humane Society works with the Sheriff's office for animal control. You call 911 if you have an emergency, you go through the Humane Society for a complaint.

I hadn't thought about contacting the landlord, I was just now able to find her via county tax records. I don't know if it would do any good, though.

LadyShea · #15 04-12-2012, 12:30 AM

Well, it's possible the landlord could be liable. I think I would want to know that my renter's dog was killing the neighbors dogs.

ZEZOZE · #16 04-12-2012, 01:14 AM

is anybody going to answer my question? i realize it's a tangent, but seriously- why do people want to own a creature that could easily maim or kill them or other people? i'm not just talking about pit bulls. there are lots of breeds that would be deadly dangerous if they suddenly turned. even a strong dog playing rough with a child is dangerous.

what is the deal with people owning animals that could take them in a fight? i mean there are people that use them for practical purposes like a weapon and there are those self-righteous people that buy them just to prove some sort of point, just daring people to question owning such a beast, but what about average owners with no obvious agenda? it must be some need to dominate and feel power. i suppose owning animals in general is all about that. i guess it's about companionship, but you could just as easily take in a stranger and it would probably be about as dangerous.

a wondering dog owner in canada.

freemonkey · #17 04-12-2012, 01:25 AM

ITSOZAZ, I can't really answer for anyone else, but I will say that I don't think most dogs are dangerous and I don't think dogs just "turn".

This particular woman probably has the dog for her safety, especially if the rumors I hear are true.

My own dog is very sweet most of the time, but I have no doubt that she would defend her home and us if she had to. But she's a pretty good deterrent - she's a barker and a door charger and she's big and loud and appears super aggressive. No one would dare come inside my home. People would ask the same questions you do about her.

Outside her property she's a sweetheart and loves people and dogs.

ZEZOZE · #18 04-12-2012, 01:31 AM

and why is it always the owners fault? do people just say this as some sort of st. francis of assisi complex?

how many of you believe dogs have personalities? i think they do. i've been around mean dogs and happy dogs and the owners didn't seem to be doing anything remarkably different in regard to how they raised them. the mean dogs weren't beaten and received pretty much the same care. that's not to say i haven't seen dogs that were made mean, but i've met dogs of all shapes and sizes that were just assholes that had owners that were not.

so what if it's just some prick of a dog lashing out? maybe it's the dick cheney of dogs.

freemonkey · #19 04-12-2012, 01:52 AM

Because I am aware of how my dog responds to certain things, I make sure I have a handle on her. I have to be sure she's inside at the times that the mailman and UPS is expected. I have to know when to expect visitors. I make sure she's in the house if one of the neighbors has children over. If one of the neighbors is having work done around their home, I take her outside on a leash. This all reduces the odds that something bad will happen.

No, it's not my fault that she behaves the way she does about some things. Maybe it's my fault for not being able to get her to stop doing some things. She was a shelter dog and I have no idea why she does some of the things she does (like freaking out over delivery people). It would definitely be my fault if someone got bit because I didn't have her under control.

Actually, she did hurt someone once a couple years ago. A guy working on my roof walked through the yard with a wheel barrow. He was bundled up and she couldn't see his face (she'd met him a few times earlier). She got through the door and went after him. He moved his hand as she rushed at him, barking, and her tooth connected with his hand. It wasn't really a bite, it was more like an accidental poke. But it was cold outside and it bled a little. I was really worried about it, but the guy was cool.

But do you see how I was to blame?

ZEZOZE · #20 04-12-2012, 01:53 AM

well yeah- you owned the animal.

ZEZOZE · #21 04-12-2012, 02:11 AM

but that's not my point. the fault of the attack is not the issue, but the need to keep creatures that are deadly when they do...calling a pit bull a pibble is an insult to the powerful beast that it is. it is a strong and potentially lethal creature. it might be extremely affectionate and never bite in its life, but it's an animal and that makes it unpredictable. hasn't being human monkeys taught us anything? you shouldn't always trust its consistent nature because bad days do happen.

it doesn't matter why it might turn, but why somebody would want to own it (or any other powerful breed) is another question.

ZEZOZE · #22 04-12-2012, 02:22 AM

oh...i'm not calling for ban of certain breeds, but i am starting to think that it's rather obnoxious and callous to own animals.

which is too bad because i really love cats.

Ari · #23 04-12-2012, 02:24 AM

ITSOZAZ, Don't you have multiple kids, the most lethal of animals. I mean calling them kiddo is just a cute term for 'potential homicidal maniac' right?

ZEZOZE · #24 04-12-2012, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ari

ITSOZAZ, Don't you have multiple kids, the most lethal of animals. I mean calling them kiddo is just a cute term for 'potential homicidal maniac' right?

dogs aren't human and i don't own my kids. and yeah- there is a lot of potential lethality inside my kind.

and i don't call my kids, kiddo. i call one my little lady and the other little dude.

thedoc · #25 04-12-2012, 04:01 AM

All animals have personalities and dogs are no exception. I've had several dogs over the years but not now, just don't have the time, I'm taking care of grandchildren. Some were very smart, some were down right stupid, but they were all different. I only had one that could be considered dangerous but she wasn't very big so that helped, she was 1/8th Wolf and the rest Malamute. She was my dog and I always had control of her.