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Old 05-23-2014, 09:54 PM
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Default The Elder Scrolls VI: Some Things I'd Like to See

Okay, I loved Oblivion, and I love Skyrim. (I think that Oblivion has the better storyline, but gosh dang it, Skyrim is just so much fun to play!) I've heard good things about the previous games in the series, but I haven't had the chance to play them.

I'd love it if Bethesda would re-do the earlier games in the series and release an "Elder Scrolls Anthology," with all 5 games in high def and fully voiced. Of course, I imagine the chances of that happening are roughly equivalent to those of Alduin deciding that maybe he's been a bad boy and so he'll go hang out with Paarthurnax and study The Way of the Voice.

Anyway, while roaming around Skyrim last night, beating up on the occasional vampire, bandit or dragon stupid enough to attack the Dovahkiin, I got to thinking about some of the things I'd like to see in The Elder Scrolls VI. These are just a few things off the top of my head: I'm sure others can think of plenty of other things.

Make the thing actually work!:
Okay, this is my biggest complaint with Skyrim: I can't say how well it works on the PC, but I can tell you from painful experience that it is just barely playable on the PS3. It runs somewhat better on the Xbox, but even on the Xbox, the game suffers from some pretty egregious performance issues.

On the PS3, by the time you've reached Level 20 or so, the game has already started to seriously lag, and this results in certain activities being difficult to accomplish. As you level up, the lag gets worse, and the game gets ever more buggy. Soon, some missions become literally impossible to complete.

Some of the on-line guides flat-out tell you that if you're playing on a console, certain tasks must be completed before you reach a particular level. For example, in my experience, Meridia's Quest cannot be completed on the PS3 or Xbox if you don't do it before you reach Level 40 or thereabouts. (I learned this the hard way, because I was so busy exploring Skyrim that by the time I got started on Meridia's Quest, it was too late, and so the quest could not be accomplished.)

The Civil War quests are similarly bugged on consoles. If you wait too long before starting the Civil War storyline, some of the must-complete missions cannot be completed, and so there's no way to complete the storyline and no way to get the house in Windhelm. (I honestly would prefer that the Dovahkiin stay out of the Civil War in Skyrim. I hate to take sides, as each side has good points about the other; there are good people -- and bad -- on both sides of the conflict. And the only people who benefit from the Civil War are the danged Thalmor.) The only reason I've taken up the Civil War storyline is because I want to get the house in Windhelm.

Bloodskal Barrow is another quest that must be accomplished before you reach a certain level, else the danged door that lets you in won't open, no matter how many times you swing that danged sword at it.



In fact, I found that on the PS3, by the time I'd reached Level 80 or so, the game was so buggy and so slow, and it crashed so often that all the joy was taken out of playing. I quit playing, because it wasn't fun at all -- just frustrating. It's much less buggy at high levels on the Xbox, but if you're playing a character of level 80 or higher, you'll still have to deal with absurdly long loading times, lots of bugs, and the occasional outright crash.


I understand that there are a lot of things for the game to keep track of. Doubtless, that explains why the game gets progressively slower and more error-prone as you advance. Even so, is it really so much to ask for a game that actually works?


I presume that TES: VI will be made for the PS4 and Xbox One. Maybe these consoles will be powerful enough to allow the game to actually work?


Beta testing!:
Closely related to the above complaint: Skyrim is a really buggy game. I'm playing the "Legendary Edition" -- Bethesda's final word on the game, with all the bug fixes they're going to make -- and it's still a frustratingly buggy game.

I get the distinct impression that Bethesda's attitude is something like: "Beta testing? We don't need to do any danged beta testing! That's what the players are for."


Part of the reason that Skyrim is so buggy is probably due to the way that it handles memory. After all, Oblivion wasn't nearly so buggy, nor did it have the lag issues or absurdly long loading times at high levels. (Many's the time when I've decided to "fast travel" somewhere in Skyrim, or just to go into a house or a walled city -- and while the game was loading the new area, I've gone into the kitchen, made myself a sandwich, come back into the living room ... and the game still hadn't finished loading the new area. That's just ridiculous.)

When I was wandering the countryside in Oblivion, I'd occasionally see a message on the bottom of the screen that said "Loading new area" or somesuch. The game proceeded smoothly while this was happening, and there was never any problem when roaming the countryside. My guess is that the game breaks the countryside of Cyrodiil up into individual cells of manageable size, and it automatically pre-loads the next one as you head in that direction. Since the game's active memory has to keep track of one or perhaps two cells at a time, it's never overwhelmed, and so travel across the countryside is smooth and error-free, even at the highest levels. Similarly, fast-travel actually works, and there is little lag when entering a city or a dungeon.

By contrast, Skyrim doesn't seem seem to divide the countryside into numerous cells of manageable size. (Perhaps all of the outdoors is considered one big cell, or maybe it's broken up into a few large cells.) The result, apparently, is that the game must keep track of a huge number of things, and that probably explains why it gets so slow and so buggy as you progress.



Some of the bugs in Skyrim are harmless or even amusing. Others, less so. For example, I understand that the infamous "Giant launches the Dovahkiin into orbit" glitch was deliberately kept in, because people found it amusing. (I know I do; I recently saw a Giant catapult an attacking Wolf clear onto the top of a nearby mountain, much to my amusement.) On the other hand, I do have to wonder why the game spawns a dead dragon outside of Falkreath every time I visit the city. That bug is harmless, at least. There are plenty of others that aren't so harmless.


Again, I understand that it's a big game, and that the game has to keep track of a lot of different things. Inevitably, there will be things that the game-designers missed, and so bugs will occur. But you know what? I would much rather the company delay the game's release by a few months in order to thoroughly test it and work out the bugs than have them release a game that requires nine updates just to work out the worst of the bugs -- and that's still borderline unplayable on systems that it was specifically designed for.



Better Voice Acting and More Varied Dialogue:
I'm hoping that TES: VI will have better voice acting. The voice acting in Skyrim is very hit-or-miss, in my opinion. Some of it is excellent. (For example, say what you will about the character, but Serana is very well voiced). Some of it is not. (Gah! Why is it that most of the voice actors don't seem to have understood what the phrase "Looking to protect yourself, or deal some damage?" actually means?)

Some more voice actors would be nice, too. After awhile, it gets tedious that every male Orc sounds exactly the same, for instance. It's great that Bethesda has managed to get some high-profile actors to voice some of their characters (Claudia Christian, Michael Hogan, Christopher Plummer(!), etc.), and most of them do excellent jobs. But if it's a matter of money, then honestly, I'd prefer they spent the money on getting a larger variety of lesser-known voice actors.


Along similar lines, there's gotta be some kind of happy medium between the way Oblivion voiced character interactions and the way that Skryim does. On the one hand, Oblivion often had some truly atrocious interactions between NPCs -- but the random combinations of dialogue could sometimes result in conversations that were amusingly bizarre, or even eerily appropriate.

The problem with the way that Skyrim handles NPC chatter is that while the scripted conversations sound really nice, the repetitiveness grates after awhile. The first time or two you hear the Windhelm blacksmith accuse his assistant of stealing his good hammer, it's amusing and even charming. The 100th time you hear it, you want to reach into the screen and strangle him.

Maybe with TES: VI, they'll record a large number of possible conversations that can occur between various combinations of NPCs, so that the NPC chatter isn't so danged repetitive? For that matter, maybe a smarter game engine would allow for spontaneous conversations that make sense. How's this?: maybe the game engine could have a certain number of scripted conversations, and it would randomly select from them when particular NPCs interact, but it would also have a certain number of possible randomly-generated interactions?

What I mean is something like this: Suppose when two NPCs interact, the game has 2 choices. Choice 1 is to randomly (or perhaps not-so-randomly) pick one of several scripted interactions. Choice 2 is to have NPC 1 randomly choose one of several possible greetings, then have NPC 2 randomly respond with one of several possible replies. For each greeting that NPC 1 gives, there would be a list of possible replies that NPC 2 could give. If done properly, this would allow NPCs to have randomly-generated, but more or less realistic conversations.




Have Characters Be More Aware of Events:
I completed the Civil War storyline quite some time ago. Ulfric Stormcloak is long dead. Every single city in Skyrim is controlled by the Imperials, and has been for some time. You'd think that news of this would have gotten out. So why is it that when I went into Riften a few nights ago, Grelka was grousing about how Ulfric is a power-hungry despot, and that his war is costing her money?

Why is it that when I walk into Whiterun, a guard might hail me as the Harbinger of the Companions, and then in his very next sentence ask me if my job as the newest member of the Companions is to fetch the mead?

I've single-handedly destroyed the Dark Brotherhood. I'm the Archmage of the College of Winterhold. I've single-handedly decimated the Bandit populations of all 9 holds. I've literally led armies into battle. I've single-handedly reduced the Falmer from a looming menace to a threatened species. I've eliminated the Vampire menace. I've killed scores of dragons. I've single-handedly defeated Alduin the World-Eater. And all of this is public knowledge. Bards sing my praises when I walk into a pub. Guards offer to buy me mead. I'm literally wearing the bones of dead dragons as armor!

So why on Nirn does some random Thief think he can approach me in the wilderness and threaten me? Mind you, the game would be a lot less fun if Bandits and Thalmor weren't so incredibly stupid as to think that it would be a good idea to pick a fight with somebody wearing Daedric armor, for Akatosh's sake. Still, it would be nice if, on occasion, the Bad Guys at least made some attempt to behave rationally. (For instance, I think it would improve the gameplay immensely if, when you approached a Bandit lair, instead of the lot of them immediately rushing to attack you while yelling about how pathetic you are -- one would occasionally say, "Uh, guys, are you sure we want to pick a fight with this person?".)


Along similar lines, it's jarring when a guard praises you for destroying the Dark Brotherhood, and then in his next line of dialogue threatens to cut off your hand if he finds it in his pocket. I have literally never pickpocketed an innocent person. I scrupulously limit my pick-pocketing to Bandits, Conjurors, and other Bad Guys. And then I kill them. There are literally no living witnesses to the fact that I've every picked a pocket. So I wish the guards would stop threatening to cut off my hand already! They can't possibly be aware that I've ever picked a pocket. And even so, they have no business threatening me about it.

What I mean is: if you're wanted in Riften for picking pockets or otherwise stealing stuff, it's only natural that guards in other holds would have heard rumors, and so wouldn't trust you. But if you've literally never accrued a bounty in any hold, then the guards have no business accusing you of being a "Sneak-Thief" just because it's a whole lot easier for a low-level character to clear out a Bandit lair using stealth than it is to run right into the place and dare the Bandits to do something about your presence.


Again, along similar lines, it would be nice if characters kept better track of their relationships with you. For instance, that merchant in Falkreath. I've done business with him countless times. I've invested in his shop. He tells me I'm a "good friend" when I walk in the door. Then, when I'm leaving, he growls that if I steal anything from him, I'll be sorry. I swear, one of these days I'm gonna snap, whip out my sword, and make him sorry!



Why Can't I Give People Nice Things?:
When I walk into a city, Guards ask me if I'll enchant their weapons. I always want to reply, "I'd love to!". Guards occasionally admire my armor and say they wish they had a set. Again, I'd love to oblige!

I always hate it when a Vampire or Dragon attack results in NPCs getting killed. Generally, I re-load and try again, until I can get rid of the pesky Vampires or Dragon without anyone getting killed in the crossfire.

Well, why can't I give the Guards and Townspeople (or even followers, for crying out loud?) improved weapons and armor? That way, maybe they wouldn't die like flies every time a Dragon looks at them funny.

I think a nifty option would be that when you reach a certain level in Smithing or Enchanting, such dialogue options would open up, and you could actually follow through. If nothing else, it would be a neat way to boost your Smithing, Enchanting, and Speech scores.

Let's say you have a really high Smithing score, and some Guard comments on it. It would be really neat if you could open up a dialogue tree that would allow you to improve the Guard's armor for him -- or just craft better armor for him. Guards whom you've given improved weapons/armor would call you "Friend" and generally be well-disposed to you.

Imagine the possibilities! Let's say that you've befriended all the Guards in Whiterun. Now let's say that a group of Vampires decides to attack the city. They storm the gate to find themselves facing half a dozen Guards. Guards wearing Ebony armor that has been crafted to "Legendary" quality. Each guard is wearing necklaces and rings and armor that have been enchanted with some combination of "Fortify Destruction" and "Fortify Health" and "Resist Magic." Each guard is carrying a Daedric sword and a Dragonbone Bow -- each of which has "Fire Damage" and "Absorb Health" enchantments. In his last few seconds of life, one of the Vampires might hear a Guard say, "You picked the wrong city to attack!" ...

It would be a simple-enough thing to have every guard wear a surcoat that's emblazoned with the City's symbol, so that every Guard would be recognizable as a Guard, even if he's wearing Dragonscale or Ebony armor. Similarly, there's no reason that an Ebony or Glass shield couldn't be painted with the City's symbol.


You can give NPCs improved weapons and armor, but only up to a point. You can only improve what they have; if you give them better armor, they won't equip it. And in my experience, they won't equip enchanted necklaces or rings at all. Dangit, I want to see Mjoll the Lioness proudly strolling the streets of Riften in a set of Ebony armor that I crafted for her, while carrying an enchanted Daedric battleaxe. Let the Thieves Guild try messing with her now! I want to hear her comment to some random NPC, "This is nice armor, isn't it? As it happens, the Dovahkiin is a close personal friend of mine, and she made it for me."



How About a Long-Term Project?:
By the time you reach high level in Skyrim, you've got literally millions of septims to your name, and nothing you can spend them on. You know what would be neat? If you could personally fund and supervise the re-building of Helgen.

Wouldn't that be a neat project? First things first: you're going to have to clear out the Bandits who have taken up residence. Then, you're going to have to hire a crew to clean up the mess -- haul away all the burned-out timber, broken rubble, etc. This will naturally take quite a bit of game time, so you could go out and do other stuff and check in occasionally to see how the clean-up is progressing.

Once the rubble is cleared, then you're going to want to build some new city walls. Maybe you'll have options: wooden walls or stone? How many guard towers should there be? Do you want to mine the stone yourself (this could take awhile) or hire people to do it for you?

Once you've secured the site, you'll want to build some buildings. A blacksmith's shop, a general merchandise store, several houses, etc. Since you are the one funding/building the city, maybe you could add a few types of stores that you don't generally see in Skyrim. How about a bookstore? Maybe an enchanter's emporium -- a store that specializes in making custom-enchanted merchandise?

Once you've got your city more or less built -- and that's going to take quite a while -- it will naturally start to attract residents and merchants. Maybe you could recruit merchants. For instance, maybe one of the members of one of the Khajiit Caravans would like to set up a shop in your city, so that they have a permanent place of business. (Since you're building the city, those bigoted Nords can just take their anti-Khajiit prejudices and stick them.) Maybe a nice Dunmer or two would like to set up a shop in your town. Maybe one of the residents of the College of Winterhold would like to set up a Magic Emporium in your city. And so forth.

Now you're going to need to start hiring Guards. And you're going to want to make sure they're properly outfitted. You're going to want to make sure you've crafted the very best armor and weapons available for their use, right? That's going to keep you busy for awhile. Any Bandits or Dragons who're stupid enough to attack the new and improved Helgen are going to be in for a very nasty surprise.

Maybe you could recruit Mjoll the Lioness to be your new Captain of the Guard. She'd probably enjoy the position, and would take the responsibility very seriously. Or if she doesn't want to leave Riften, maybe Lydia would take the job.


Anyway, I think a long-term project like that would be fun.

Along similar lines, I wish I could build an orphanage. Oh, sure, once you get rid of Grelod the Kind, Constance does a decent job of running Honorhall Orphanage, but there are still a number of homeless kids roaming the streets of Skyrim's major cities. I've got big, practically-empty houses in several of the major cities -- houses that I hardly ever even visit, except when I'm traveling. My housecarl in Windhelm must get lonely; I hardly ever visit the place. Well, the house has plenty of space, and it has somebody living there whose job is to keep it protected and clean. And I've got plenty of money to buy food, clothing, and other supplies. Why not convert one of my homes to an orphanage? That'd be kind of neat.





Speaking of Houses:
I love the fact that you can build and decorate your own home. I just wish that your built home did not re-set occasionally! Dangit, I've got everything the way I like it -- I do not want to come home after an extended trip to Solstheim to find that my house has re-set and all my stuff is lying on the floor!


And here's something I wish I could do. Instead of lighting my house with candles, why can't I put a permanent "Light" enchantment on a lamp stand instead? They do that sort of thing at the College of Winterhold, and it looks magnificent. I wish I could light my house that way!


On the other hand, when I add stuff to my home, the game has the annoying habit of adding stuff that I don't want. For example, I'll decide to build a chest to hold my stuff -- and the game will add several large sacks, as well. I don't want those sacks; they're just cluttering up the place. I wish the game would let you click on certain items and delete them from your home.


And since money is no object by the latter stages of the game, I wish I could build a bigger house. You see, I'm kind of a hoarder. I like to collect mementos. I wish I could build a house with a really big Armory, so I could have like a dozen mannequins displaying interesting sets of armor that I've collected during the course of the game. And I wish I could build a really big Trophy Room with a dozen or so different trophies. And I wish you could build one of those big bookshelves like you see in the College of Winterhold, to display the hundreds of books that I obsessively collect during the course of the game.

Along those lines, I wish the game gave you a better way to pick up and manipulate objects. It's danged hard to place objects where you want them and how you want them. (It's also annoying that they have a tendency to move, but that's another issue.)




Anyway, some thoughts.


Cheers,

Michael
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Last edited by The Lone Ranger; 05-23-2014 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 05-24-2014, 04:37 AM
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Default Re: The Elder Scrolls VI: Some Things I'd Like to See

Just a few things. Save game bloat (which is a lot of what your problem with the post level 20 point) is a long time issue with Bethesda games, especially on the console. I never had a problem with it Skyrim and only once had to deal with a similar issue in Oblivion (corrupted save file) Morrowind did suffer from bloat but I think there was a tool to get rid of it. Which brings me to a major point, I was only able to play Skyrim for as long as I did (and even not think I may someday revisit it) because I could download mods for the game. I had a few mods that added content, mostly a freebie house and more spells, but most of them fixed bugs or oddities such as not being able to improve or craft certain items or fixing broken quests - or allowing me to refuse quests that would otherwise automatically start. Beyond that, I had access to the console commands that allowed me to manually fix things that were broken. So what you describe about insufficient Beta testing is very much true, but on the PC it was possible for users to fix things.

I definitely agree about the schizo NPCs. Oblivion had that problem as well, with a Mage going from berating you for something the Fighter's Guild didn't do to then immediately fawning over you as the Archmage. Oh, the sneak thief thing is based on your Sneak skill, not Pickpocket. It's probably a carryover from the fact that the two skills were the same in Oblivion. The skills got split but the code didn't get changed. Of course since if you have raised your Pickpocket skill, changing it would still result in guard warnings as the dialog is based on your skill level not your past actions.

As for me, my number one complaint about the game as always been the linear nature of the quests and dungeons. Why is there only one way into the Thalmor Embassy? Give me a way to sneak over that low wall or slip in invisible or something. Why is it that only the Imperial Blades think to tell me about the prophecy of Alduin's return when it's a Nord legend that Jarl Balgruf knows immediately when you mention it? Why do you (as a vampire hunter) have to acquire the one thing that the head vampire needs to basically destroy the world and then take it along with you to fight him? There isn't anything about that in prophecy and it was quite possible to beat him without using it. Oblivion's dungeons were all generic/modular with rooms reused all over the place, but at least you could enter a fight from different angles, pick off outlying enemies and fade back into stealth etc... Skyrim's dungeons were full of monsters facing the only direction you could come from and full of random triggers that would activate enemies even if you were completely undetected. Oblivion often gave you an objective and then was coded to let you achieve it in different ways. The Dark Brotherhood line was great at that, except for the end.

Bethesda used a great engine and put a lot of care into designing a world, but then stopped halfway when it came time to designing how a player could progress through it. Don't even get me started about how some quests were designed for 'good' characters and others for shockingly evil ones, generally without the option to refuse or even fail the quest if it didn't match what your character would do.

And then there was the lack of spells. Some spell effects in Oblivion were rather pointless or extremely inefficient so were rightly removed. Others effects were in Skyrim but not available or hard to get (water walking for instance). Then they neglected to add spells of differing magnitudes, so that the very useful Novice level 'spray' spells became useless at higher levels but were never replaced with more powerful versions. Given that spell effects were more or less fixed, it was rather frustrating for me as mages are usually my favorite classes.
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Old 05-24-2014, 04:41 AM
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Default Re: The Elder Scrolls VI: Some Things I'd Like to See

I don't even know what it's called... Skyblivion? Someone is working on making Oblivion with the Skyrim engine.
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Old 05-24-2014, 04:51 PM
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Default Re: The Elder Scrolls VI: Some Things I'd Like to See

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ymir's blood View Post
Just a few things. Save game bloat (which is a lot of what your problem with the post level 20 point) is a long time issue with Bethesda games, especially on the console.
Ain't that the truth. Though as you mentioned it is not a problem limited to consoles. Fallout New Vegas is notorious for this problem. The autosave feature when you enter/exit a building is excellent if you want corrupt saves. Bethesda/ZeniMax never bothered to fix the problem. In fact Bethesda release patches for less then a year (IIRC) then washed their hands of the problem saying they weren't going to fix anything else and were moving on to bigger and better things (Skyrim I think). To this day there are still horrible game breaking bugs in FNV.
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