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  #251  
Old 08-30-2013, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

WOOOOOOOO! Mr. Pea is gonna write my presentation for me! :woohoo:

But seriously, that blog is very useful. At first read, Ima steal this:

Quote:
One of the hardest ways to be wrong involves saying something that is inadvertently prejudicial. When someone points out that something we said or did was racist, sexist, ableist, homophobic, classist or otherwise, we often feel attacked. Remember, though, that if someone bothers to engage with you on this kind of issue, it means they think you’re worth it. It’s really easy to write someone off as racist; it’s much harder to start a dialogue on the issue. If they do the latter, it’s because they’ve decided that you’re a good person who’s worth their time and energy. So instead of launching into an explanation for why and how you can’t possibly be prejudiced, ask “Can you tell me what you mean?” and listen listen listen.
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  #252  
Old 08-30-2013, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

FIRST PROBLEM: I don't actually know what your job is, but YES, I TOTALLY WANT TO WRITE YOUR PRESENTATION FOR YOU.

Something like this might be a good start:

@universalhub Love this commentary on an ad on the Red Line. on Twitpic

That's a recruitment ad for a tech company, and apparently nobody in their approval chain noticed the blatant ageism and sexism in the ad. So not only does this company appear to have a discriminatory model that might alienate potential candidates, but an ad like this could, at least hypothetically, be used to substantiate employment discrimination claims, in that the company perceives middle aged women as being technically incompetent.

You could probably cover up the Post It note and most people wouldn't be able to figure out what's wrong with it.

That's privilege. It's the assumption that your audience is a specific type of person, usually white, male, and at least middle class. The privilege is being able to ignore the fact that some people don't fall into those categories. Which doesn't only hurt the people you're alienating, but it also hurts your business by alienating a big part of your pool of potential job candidates, customers and clients, and business partners.

Here is Bill Gates laying a business related smackdown to a sex segregated audience in Saudi Arabia:

Quote:
A questioner asked if he thought Saudi Arabia could meet its ambitious goal of becoming one of the world's most competitive economies by 2010, Gates said.

"I said, 'Well, if you're not fully utilizing half the talent in the country, you're not going to get too close to the top,'" Gates said.
From here: Gates: Women Key to Saudi Arabia Economy

The graphic on this article (and the article itself) illustrate a different type of unexamined privilege that could be relevant in a workplace.

When Classes Collide: Workers and Guests at High End Hotels Sociological Images

And it doesn't even have to be that the person you're talking to lives there now. Maybe they grew up in that 'bad neighborhood' or one like it. Maybe they have family and friends who live there. (This is largely the reason that you're not supposed to ask people where they live when interviewing. 'Bad neighborhoods' are often ethnically segregated ones.)

The other thing that is super-important is that privilege is not a crime or something you need to be ashamed of. It's just something you need to keep in mind when you talk to and about others. Remember that certain demographics are very overrepresented in our media--not just fiction, but in news and opinion as well. We have major public figures, including the president, who still refer to women in the third person, and in the context of their relationship to the presumed male audience. (Our wives, daughters, and mothers...) We still talk about non-white people in the third person, as though it would never even occur to us that we might actually be talking to someone other than a white person.* Huge retailers and other companies design massive websites and never even consider making them accessible to disabled users, which is something that is super-trivial to implement at the design stages if it even occurs to you, and about a million times harder if you end up having to fix it after you get sued.

OK. So those are some things. Is that the sort of thing that would work? I'm usually p. good at remembering things that I've seen, so I could probably find examples of different things if you need specific other examples.

I do not have Windows privilege, or I'd just go ahead and do a Powerpoint for you.**

* Yes, of course I did that on purpose.

** LOL no I wouldn't.
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  #253  
Old 08-30-2013, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

Well, luckily I have a Powerpoint already prepared with the company logo and crap on it. But now I have, like, cutting and pasting to do. Sounds like a whole lot of gettin' up.

That first example is friggin' dynamite. From a completely different industry, but it's a perfect example that can tie the discussion to business practices.

My current draft still talks about privilege, but I've changed the title to "Avoiding Passive Discrimination." I don't remember whether I stole that from Pea, Shea or Demi, but it's mine now, all MINE! :muahaha:
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  #254  
Old 11-06-2013, 04:07 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

This morning I have found the perfect illustration of privilege, even more effective because I'm fairly sure the Detroit News didn't even realize what it was doing when it put this on the front page yesterday.



See how, on a bus full of Black men and women in a city full of Black men and women, the focus is literally on the White man who is at the center of everything. Could there be a better reflection of privilege in this country?
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  #255  
Old 11-06-2013, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

"Tell us, sir. What is it like riding the bus in Detroit?"

"Well, there are a lot of black people."

:unnod: I see...
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  #256  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:10 AM
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Default Re: Privilege

isn't that your perception of privilege? how do you know that's what the photographer was focusing on? do you really think the photographer turned around and said- "Sweet Jesus! There is a white man here! For a moment i thought i had nothing but a crowded bus."

what if the white dude just happened to fall in the center of the shot. is that not possible? do you think he was a plant by the paper?

before drawing conclusions, think of the poor black people counting on you to make the right ones.
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  #257  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:22 AM
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Default Re: Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEZOZE View Post
what if the white dude just happened to fall in the center of the shot. is that not possible? do you think he was a plant by the paper?
:giggle:
This isn't the olden days where you had a single glass plate to expose and woops it was going to be all black but then that one guy got off and this white guy sat down before I could open the shutter.
The photographer took plenty of photos, but this one was chosen. Speaking of you're right while he falls in the center maybe that's an accident maybe the focus is on someone else... nope. While there are two other people who's faces are fully exposed they are blurry and clearly not the subject.
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  #258  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:39 AM
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Default Re: Privilege

but you have no proof for that. just your own interpretation. a stereotype you're in fact helping to reinforce.

i don't think you'll see it that way, but i don't see how you can't. :shrug:
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  #259  
Old 11-07-2013, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: Privilege

Perhaps it is because he understands how a camera works. :shrug:
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  #260  
Old 11-07-2013, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demimonde View Post
Perhaps it is because he understands how a camera works. :shrug:
well the white dude does make for a nice composition and i'd gravitate toward it, but not out of a feeling of superiority...more like symmetry.
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  #261  
Old 11-07-2013, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet View Post
This morning I have found the perfect illustration of privilege ...
I don't think that photo illustrates privilege, though I can imagine some narratives about privilege that could be hung off it. It's a photo of a bus with a lot of people on it, all but one of them black. We can assume the white guy enjoys the usual white male privileges, but this photo neither shows him doing that, nor confers on him, nor on white people generally, any privileges they don't already enjoy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari View Post
While there are two other people who's faces are fully exposed they are blurry and clearly not the subject.
Everyone appears pretty blurred to me, and the subject of the photo is the bus and passengers, not the one white guy—even if our focus is drawn to him because of the contrast between his and the others' skin colours.
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEZOZE View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demimonde View Post
Perhaps it is because he understands how a camera works. :shrug:
well the white dude does make for a nice composition and i'd gravitate toward it, but not out of a feeling of superiority...more like symmetry.
Which is kind of the point, both for you and the newspaper. This is unexamined privilege. I never suggested, or thought, that the Detroit News was being deliberately racist. The fact is the composition fell into what they found appealing because in this society that is where the figurative focus always is.
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:22 PM
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The fact is the composition fell into what they found appealing ...
Whether (and why) something is appealing is hardly a matter of fact, and in this case the appeal may lie in the clarity of the story told by the lone white face among the many black passengers.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:10 PM
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What story is that?
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  #265  
Old 11-08-2013, 12:04 AM
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Default Re: Privilege

I was thinking of the story that Detroit bus users are mostly, but not entirely, not white.
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  #266  
Old 11-08-2013, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet View Post
Which is kind of the point, both for you and the newspaper. This is unexamined privilege.

now come on. i might be the dumbest member of this joint, but you're making that up.

what if the roles had been reversed? as a photographer, i'd be looking to compose a shot and i would aim for the lone black man in the middle of all the white people riding the bus. and if the story was all about transportation, it's the type of photo that would fit the bill. it means nothing more than what it means in regard to the story.

until you take it out of context. you're doing that. you are making the distinction. i suspect that if it was one black dude surrounded by whites you would say it was a great metaphor for the isolation of the black man in a very white world, but that suggestion isn't there until somebody suggests it...as i just did. ha. self-burn for the cause.

it smacks of liberal egoism. i point out the difference and i frown. i am superior to it. the rhetoric of how i explain my position doesn't change the fact that i still behave like everybody else.

truly examine the behaviour and open your eyes to it and maybe you'll eliminate the concept of privilege.
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  #267  
Old 11-08-2013, 07:47 PM
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it smacks of liberal egoism. i point out the difference and i frown. i am superior to it. the rhetoric of how i explain my position doesn't change the fact that i still behave like everybody else.
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  #268  
Old 11-08-2013, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

white guys doing it by themselves

Weird how un-weird it all looks.
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  #269  
Old 11-08-2013, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sock Puppet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEZOZE View Post
it smacks of liberal egoism. i point out the difference and i frown. i am superior to it. the rhetoric of how i explain my position doesn't change the fact that i still behave like everybody else.
:ironymeter:

not really. in fact i already pointed out a self-burn. i do behave like everybody else. i just happen to point and frown at sanctimonious, self-righteous, do-gooders, who do nothing of the sort.

that's all.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
white guys doing it by themselves

Weird how un-weird it all looks.

wu-pee

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  #271  
Old 11-12-2013, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
white guys doing it by themselves

Weird how un-weird it all looks.
It's been starting to look more weird and also more hostile to me recently, and I think that could be a good sign. The less good part is that maybe I'm just primed to notice it more now and understand why exactly it is a problem. But the more good part is that maybe it really is the case that there is starting to be more diversity in the organizations that make a difference in my life, including in leadership, so when I see a group of dudes like that I assume they must be representing someone who's up to no good.

Anyway, it started a few months ago when I saw some NBC Nightly News Special Report with Tom Brokaw (I could have that wrong, I'm googling furiously with no luck) where the host spends an hour trying to convince the viewers that traditional news is the only reliable and relevant news source and what the hell is it with kids these days and their social media, anyway? He had all these guests who were like, "Oh, I totally agree, and also traditional news is the best and you can't trust the blogs because who is even behind those things anyway?" and every guest was older and whiter and less relevant than the last. They were so smug and patting themselves on the back about how obviously right they were, regardless of what the public consumes in reality, since everybody whose opinion actually matters obviously agrees. I made it about 10 minutes into the special before I had to turn it off and go take a shower.
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Last edited by Ensign Steve; 11-12-2013 at 09:25 PM.
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  #272  
Old 11-12-2013, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

Pea, you thanked too early. Go read my edit and then thanks it again, okay? Thanks!
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

OK. I unthanked and read the edit. Should I wait until tomorrow to re-thank, so it shows a different date, or should I just re-thank it now and hope that somehow the database reflects my thank compliance?

Thanks in advance for your prompt and politely worded response!
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  #274  
Old 11-12-2013, 11:58 PM
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You should start another account, like "thanksfromlisarea" or something, just for the purpose of re-thanking that post, and then never use it again.
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  #275  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:02 AM
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Or lisarea (Today).
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