Checking my Privilege

[Janet]

I had a discussion with one of my coworkers that started to bother me. The local paper today posted an article about Flint's current star, Olympic Gold Medalist Claressa Shields graduating high school. My coworker does the library's teen Facebook and we do the adult one together. She told me that she was going to post the article to the teen page, but at the end of it, Shields starts talking about how her manager didn't get her any endorsement deals. My friend was put off by that and didn't post it.

I can't help thinking that our perspective is a *White privilege issue. Claressa is poor. She lives in a post-industrial wasteland with no jobs and little hope of jobs coming back. Isn't it perfectly reasonable for her to expect to be able to profit from being officially the best in the world at her sport? Isn't that why poor kids aspire to be professional athletes in the first place? But we two White ladies sit there and think "eww, caring about money is a bad example to set" so we don't post the article.

Am I right about that instinct, or am I being over-sensitive?


*I realize this may well be as much, if not more, about class than race. But it's hard to separate in a town like this.

[Clutch Munny]

I think you're right about that instinct. It's one of the central things about privilege that if your floor level of X is relatively high for reasons of privilege, it can be relatively easy to dismiss someone else's focus on X as an overreaction, grasping or crass. (Not just money, but, say, professional respect, or personal safety.) I'm probably pretty bad at noticing when I think or react that way, so I appreciate your example.

Can you still do something about it?

[Ari]

I'm curious what she was put off by?
Endorsement deals are the way many athletes make money.
It's even more important when it's the events first Olympic games and only positive views will keep it in the games.

[SkepticX]

Originally Posted by Janet

Am I right about that instinct, or am I being over-sensitive

Your take seems perfectly reasonable to me.

On a closely related note, both the lack of endorsement deals and being put of by the athlete's attitude about them are very first world problems, not to detract from the privilege issue by any means.

[lisarea]

It does seem likely that not talking about money is a middle class thing. Also, I've heard people say that women are conditioned not to talk about money, too, as an explanation for women not negotiating salaries much.

So maybe that's part of the perception too?

[But]

Put off, SkepticX. Put Off. Not "Put Of".

[But]

Originally Posted by Clutch Munny

I think you're right about that instinct. It's one of the central things about privilege that if your floor level of X is relatively high for reasons of privilege, it can be relatively easy to dismiss someone else's focus on X as an overreaction, grasping or crass. (Not just money, but, say, professional respect, or personal safety.) I'm probably pretty bad at noticing when I think or react that way, so I appreciate your example.

Can you still do something about it?

Just to distract a little bit from all the nonsense: Which of the following modal logic variants do you prefer, S5 or CTL? I'm torn between them. Please send me a private message or post one publicly on this thread.

[Janet]

Originally Posted by Ari

I'm curious what she was put off by?
Endorsement deals are the way many athletes make money.
It's even more important when it's the events first Olympic games and only positive views will keep it in the games.

She thought the reverse, that it was unrealistic to expect endorsements for a new sport and greedy to be motivated by that.

The more I think about it, the worse it seems. Because I feel that the reason she isn't getting endorsements is probably also because she's a poor, Black girl from Flint who does not talk like a highly educated, articulate person. Which makes me feel she has every right to change managers and chase those deals.

I don't have access to the teen Facebook page and I wouldn't overrule her if I did. I already blew off one of my work friends last week for being a bitch to me one too many times. I'm not going to risk another friendship over this. I may post it to the regular page tomorrow, though. That page is ultimately my decision.

Also, I realized after posting this that I have a hard time differentiating race from class in this because I don't have any poor White friends, any more, anyway. So all my information about the poor experience is coming from African Americans and I can't tell how much of the issues are class based and how much race based.

[SkepticX]

Originally Posted by But

Put off, SkepticX. Put Off. Not "Put Of".

Thanks But ... dunno what I'd do without ya!

Why don't you send me a new ergo keyboard, in case it's because these keys are starting to stick, or something?

Eh?

No?

[Ensign Steve]

When I first read the immortal life of Henrietta lacks (look it up, I'm on the phone) I thought her family had serious dollar signs in their eyeballs and it seemed way tacky to me. Then I kept reading and realized I am an asshole.

[ImGod]

If her manager didn't get her endorsement deals, she should complain. But to the manager. Typical of younger people though. Complain on the internet instead and hope that fixes it.

Why back in my day, when we had an issue with a person we brought it up to them prior to posting it on a billboard for the world to see. If talking didn't solve the problem, it may have elevated to gentlemen rules fisticuffs.

[Janet]

She didn't complain to the internet. The article stated that she had fired her manager and had a new one she hoped would get her more endorsement deals.

[Clutch Munny]

Originally Posted by Ensign Steve

I kept reading and realized I am an asshole.

That'd be a damned fine summary of my post-formal education!

[Janet]

And not a bad custom user title, were I not so attached to mine.

[ImGod]

Originally Posted by Janet

She didn't complain to the internet. The article stated that she had fired her manager and had a new one she hoped would get her more endorsement deals.

That's the beauty of getting older. The older the are the less information you need to blame young people for not doing the right thing.

Read the article, really. Dumb kids, get off my lawn.

[SkepticX]

Originally Posted by ImGod

That's the beauty of getting older. The older the are the less information you need to blame young people for not doing the right thing.

Nice!

I'll have to make sure to remember that one.

Don't worry, I'll also make sure to mention I'm God when I do.

[godfry n. glad]

So that means that anybody who engages in any kind of competition and does well at it should expect endorsement deals?

I rather understood that organized athletics were originally organized to promote healthier lifestyles, not initiate a new means of economic activity and erect an entire culture of entitlements. I don't care for the money grubbing in professional sports; I care even less so in 'amateur' sports...I don't think any of them should carry expectations of wealth, fame or special standing. They should be fun and engender healthier lifestyles.

[Janet]

Sorry, but if that ever was really true, that ship has sailed. One thing this story reminded me of is hearing men from the North of England, particularly Liverpool and Manchester, saying that boxing and rock 'n' roll were the only ways for poor kids to get out of the city. I'd say you would have to go back well over a century to find a time when boxing was done for health and sportsmanship.

[godfry n. glad]

The ship may have sailed, but that doesn't stop me from resenting how we've managed to fuck up our culture with this crap.

And, in my estimation, boxing should have been banned ages ago as a brutal pastime. There is the other reason for sponsoring athletic competition: to prepare warriors for war. I'd like to see that end, as well.

[lisarea]

Whose culture, though? That's kind of the whole point, after all.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by lisarea

Whose culture, though? That's kind of the whole point, after all.

I'm sorry...I'm not following your line of thought here. Is my culture significantly at variance from the subject of the article? I have my doubts, but you can disabuse me if you like.

[lisarea]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

I'm sorry...I'm not following your line of thought here. Is my culture significantly at variance from the subject of the article? I have my doubts, but you can disabuse me if you like.

There are lots of cultures. Yours isn't superior, and it's not the default.

Some people have the luxury of pursuing their interests and honing their skills simply for some kind of love of the craft or something, and some have the luxury of pretending that's their motivation and compensation is just gravy. To some people who have that luxury, it's considered declasse to admit that you expect or even want compensation for doing something you're good at. It strikes me as probably a specifically middle class thing.

But not everyone is middle class.

Why do you think there's something wrong with someone trying to get compensation for something she's put a lot of time and effort into?

Setting aside the issue of boxing for the time being, what harm is there in someone trying to make money based on her skills? What is her basic moral failing, as far as you're concerned?

[Adam]

I think the point is that you have two distinct groups of people:

1) Relatively poor, often nonwhite, athletes who look to the money associated with athletic careers, including endorsement deals, as their best chance to escape poverty,

2) Relatively well off, typically white, spectators who complain that athletes expecting a payday is fucking up their culture.

This is why I despise the NCAA cartel. Division 1 sports are big business, and the schools rake in a shit ton of cash while blathering about the high minded ideal of the amateur student-athlete as justification for not paying the talent that's making them the money.

[erimir]

Originally Posted by lisarea

Some people have the luxury of pursuing their interests and honing their skills simply for some kind of love of the craft or something, and some have the luxury of pretending that's their motivation and compensation is just gravy. To some people who have that luxury, it's considered declasse to admit that you expect or even want compensation for doing something you're good at. It strikes me as probably a specifically middle class thing.

I think it actually originates with the upper classes. Like the British Olympic teams were composed largely of the rich and the nobility in the early years of the Olympics.

[Ari]

I used to think athletes were paid too much; then I learned how much the owners make from selling them, now I think most aren't paid enough.