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  #126  
Old 01-05-2012, 05:02 AM
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Default Re: Privilege

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Oh, and I'll eat some kittens for dinner.
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  #127  
Old 01-05-2012, 05:19 AM
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Default Re: Privilege

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Originally Posted by Goliath View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Quote:
How can a discussion of privilege occur in which accusations of having privilege are not made? I'm not being facetious here. I've never seen it happen.
This very thread has been a discussion of privilege without making accusations of privilege against each other.
No, accusations started as early as post #10:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea (to seebs) View Post
So you have the privilege of not acknowledging your own privilege and not suffering for it.
Yeah, as LadyShea points out, that was a generalized you, and I suspect you could have figured that out if you were bothering to read for comprehension rather than just looking for something to pin your hurt feelings on.

Know what, though? I will "hurl the privilege accusation" at seebs and at you, and at anyone who is reading this, who is conversant in English and has access to a computer and the internet. You are all privileged.

As LadyShea also went to great lengths to explain earlier, privilege is not a toggle switch or a simple hierarchy. It is totally relational in nature. Someone who is privileged in one arena or context over another person isn't necessarily privileged in all arenas and all contexts. Being white is a privilege in most larger societies, but in certain niches, it's not. Same with being male or abled or literate or cissexual or heterosexual or just heteronormative.

But I'll make a generalization here: If you're super-butthurt about being 'accused' of having privilege, you probably have a whole lot more of it than you should.

Do you actually believe that you've legitimately earned all the things you have, on a level playing field with everyone else? Have you ever even stopped to consider that you were born with advantages that you haven't earned and that everyone doesn't share? That's all that privilege is. Anyone arguing about privilege on the internet enjoys a fair amount of it. It's not some horrible character assassination to point it out. Reasonable people can acknowledge and examine their own privilege and use that insight to adjust their own perceptions and behaviors, rather than just taking it as some kind of hurtful slight against them.

If you do take any mention of your privilege as a personal insult and respond to it as such, though, odds are pretty good that you're not just privileged, but you're also self-centered and entitled.
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  #128  
Old 01-05-2012, 05:36 AM
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Default Re: Privilege

Yes, yes, blah blah...oh noes the patriarchy...all males should be castrated...

:yawn:

I don't take it as an insult. I find it quite boring, and I was hoping for something more original.
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  #129  
Old 01-05-2012, 05:57 AM
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Default Re: Privilege

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Originally Posted by Goliath View Post
all males should be castrated...
And who here said, or even hinted at anything like that? Outside the fevered depths of your persecution-complex-riddled imagination, that is.

I don't suppose you could be bothered to stop acting butthurt and address points actually made, instead of clichéd straw-men and empty caricatures of them, could you?
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  #130  
Old 01-05-2012, 06:06 AM
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Default Re: Privilege

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I have had conversations like that. Tragically, my proposal of "don't think of it as your period, think of it as blowjob week" was not well-received.
Try taking her to a musical first. It is all about the subtext.

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  #131  
Old 01-05-2012, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath View Post
Yes, yes, blah blah...oh noes the patriarchy...all males should be castrated...

:yawn:

I don't take it as an insult. I find it quite boring, and I was hoping for something more original.
Who are you talking to?
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  #132  
Old 01-05-2012, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath View Post
Yes, yes, blah blah...oh noes the patriarchy...all males should be castrated...

:yawn:

I don't take it as an insult. I find it quite boring, and I was hoping for something more original.
Who are you talking to?
To lisarea.
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  #133  
Old 01-05-2012, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

I am going to jump in and say, "yes, people can have privilege in different contexts, and yes it certainly changes in different situations."

That being said, the word still means something and the straight white cisgendered male does have a kind of general privilege.

I am loud and kind of obnoxious and people naturally listen to me. I speak with a natural authority, and that is the result of how society views me as a "manly," straight, white male.

In another environment, say in a gathering of trans-people or perhaps a group of feminists, yes I would be the outgroup and perhaps not have that same privilege.

Exceptions do not make the entire point invalid.
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  #134  
Old 01-05-2012, 05:48 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath View Post
Yes, yes, blah blah...oh noes the patriarchy...all males should be castrated...

:yawn:

I don't take it as an insult. I find it quite boring, and I was hoping for something more original.
Who are you talking to?
To lisarea.
And you think she said something about the patriarchy and castration?
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  #135  
Old 01-05-2012, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath View Post
Yes, yes, blah blah...oh noes the patriarchy...all males should be castrated...

:yawn:

I don't take it as an insult. I find it quite boring, and I was hoping for something more original.
Who are you talking to?
To lisarea.
And you think she said something about the patriarchy and castration?
It's the usual "Blah blah, you privileged, horrible, evil person, you..."

:yawn:

I had hoped to perhaps see a discussion of these issues without all of the acrimony, but I'm not sure that such a thing is possible.
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  #136  
Old 01-05-2012, 06:01 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

Goliath,

privileged doesn't mean horrible, nor evil

I don't think she is using it that way and I don't think that it typically used that way. I think most people who think about privilege are thankful for their privilege, there is nothing wrong with having privilege, but you should be aware of it.

It can be viewed as a societal flaw, certainly, but it is not a character flaw to have it.
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  #137  
Old 01-05-2012, 06:01 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

Goliath, jesus, you obviously didn't even comprehend her post or the thread, just set up that strawman and started swinging.

The only acrimonious person here is you. You are being as cantankerous and unpleasant as usual.
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  #138  
Old 01-05-2012, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

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Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Goliath, jesus, you obviously didn't even comprehend her post or the thread, just set up that strawman and started swinging.

The only acrimonious person here is you. You are being as cantankerous and unpleasant as usual.
Awww, no ridiculous armchair psychiatric diagnosis? You've gone soft, Shea...
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  #139  
Old 01-05-2012, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

I don't need to diagnose you, you've talked about your own depression, anxiety, and anger issues for the last near decade I've been interacting with you.

So, what's the problem, now? Why are you so pissed off at...who exactly? Feminists? Women in general?
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  #140  
Old 01-05-2012, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

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Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
I don't need to diagnose you, you've talked about your own depression, anxiety, and anger issues for the last near decade I've been interacting with you.
That's hardly stopped you before.

Quote:
So, what's the problem, now?
What do you care?
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  #141  
Old 01-05-2012, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

You came into this thread that was interesting all raging bull, misrepresented the arguments presented, and made it into something less than interesting and more about whatever has your panties up your ass.

I thought I'd ask what that might be. God you are difficult when you're in a snit.
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  #142  
Old 01-05-2012, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu View Post
Goliath,

privileged doesn't mean horrible, nor evil
Perhaps, although it would be nice to get an exact definition of what "privilege" means. Seebs made a damn good effort to put one together.

Quote:
I don't think she is using it that way and I don't think that it typically used that way.
I've never seen it used towards me in any other way.

Quote:
It can be viewed as a societal flaw, certainly, but it is not a character flaw to have it.
Then why are accusations of privilege so often wielded as weapons?
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  #143  
Old 01-05-2012, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

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Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
You came into this thread that was interesting all raging bull, misrepresented the arguments presented, and made it into something less than interesting and more about whatever has your panties up your ass.
If you'd bother to read the thread, I came into it in a very supportive manner, backing up seebs' statement that accusations of privilege are often used as a weapon.

Of course, I'm sure you have a perfectly good psychological explanation as to why I did no such thing and instead "came into this thread...all raging bull."
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  #144  
Old 01-05-2012, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

Quote:
Then why are accusations of privilege so often wielded as weapons?
Because people suck sometimes, Goliath, and use it as a weapon just as they use pc as a weapon, or Liberal, or academic.

As far as I can tell nobody here in this thread is using it that way.
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  #145  
Old 01-05-2012, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

I came to this not having previously seen it used except as a semantically incoherent weapon... BUT! I also came to this knowing that lisarea and Demi and LadyShea are all p. cool, and I assumed that I would get interesting answers that would help me understand what the thing was before the nuts got hold of it.
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  #146  
Old 01-05-2012, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by seebs View Post
I came to this not having previously seen it used except as a semantically incoherent weapon... BUT! I also came to this knowing that lisarea and Demi and LadyShea are all p. cool, and I assumed that I would get interesting answers that would help me understand what the thing was before the nuts got hold of it.
The conversation was definitely going somewhere while you were pressing them for a coherent definition of "privilege". Unfortunately, they appear to have given up trying to provide one.
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  #147  
Old 01-05-2012, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by seebs View Post
I came to this not having previously seen it used except as a semantically incoherent weapon... BUT! I also came to this knowing that lisarea and Demi and LadyShea are all p. cool, and I assumed that I would get interesting answers that would help me understand what the thing was before the nuts got hold of it.
The conversation was definitely going somewhere while you were pressing them for a coherent definition of "privilege". Unfortunately, they appear to have given up trying to provide one.
I think that's for roughly the reason that you generally can't get a solid or coherent definition of "social status" that people agree on. Sometimes, social things have Fuzzy Edges.
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  #148  
Old 03-06-2012, 01:26 AM
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Default Re: Privilege

Bullshit Privilege

Quote:
Wanna know what gets on my nerves about this whole privilege thing? How no one is right but the privilege noter. People who write privilege lists will go to the ends of the earth to find things that make them feel lesser and if you call them on it as something that has nothing to do with race, creed, sexuality, you name it … they begin backpedaling and fast.

And what most privilege lists look like to me is I’m angry and I need someone to blame lists. People who focus on privileges tend to strike me as very angry, negative people who do nothing but self deprecate. Just because you are Mexican and in Home Depot, that doesn’t mean everyone is assuming you are a “border-hopper” and there to look for work. If you notice it, then it looks like YOU are thinking it. Just because you are asian and studying in the library, that doesnt mean everyone thinks you are becoming a doctor or cant speak English. It means you are reading a fucking book in the library, stop being paranoid.

Stop thinking everyone around you is thinking the ugliest, nastiest, racial stereotyping things they can. Not everyone does that. Also, who gives a shit if they are? That just means they are dumb or ignorant. What are you gonna do about it? Yell at them? Blog angry blogs and get self righteous? How about instead you save yourself the trouble and keep being beautiful and strong in your own way.

Life. Isnt. Fair. It has never been fair, it will never be fair. I have expirenced it first hand. We cannot wipe out all ignorance, we cannot police actions, feelings, and thoughts. We cannot demand people to view what they are not differently. But most privilege lists I have found do nothing but poke at and strip other people down to shriveled up pieces of ugly. A black man can make a list showing all the white privileges he can think of, which makes it kind of a jealousy list if anything. Instead, he could make a list of things he can do and love and celebrate openly.
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  #149  
Old 03-06-2012, 02:20 AM
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Default Re: Privilege

It is hilarious how mad some people get when you point out the concept of privilege to them. It's almost as though they know this stuff at some level, but reallyreallyreally don't want anyone to officially acknowledge it.

You know what's also hilarious? That I actually already had the link for Derailment for Dummies copied and ready to re-paste without even typing it in again.

Also go look up tone arguments, because I don't already have a link all cached up and ready to go for you on that, so I cannot be fucked.
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  #150  
Old 03-06-2012, 03:54 AM
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Default Re: Privilege

That whole blog is a pretty funny load of :butthurt:
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