2024 Presidential Election Shittastic Shittacular

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Finally a contender.

Randy Rainbow for President! (2023-2024 Tour...

[LarsMac]

Hell, I'd vote for him.

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

No official announcement yet:

https://www.thecanadaparty.com/

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

@ RFK Jr. on Rogan's podcast:

Joe Rogan Stunned After 5-Year-Old Informs Him That Horseys Come From Outer Space https://t.co/EndYgJEaHi pic.twitter.com/OsJ4YdmWKd

— The Onion (@TheOnion) June 20, 2023

[Stephen Maturin]

Wingnut shitbags are falling all over themselves to curry favor with Moms for Liberty - now referenced widely on the internet as "Klanned Karenhood" - which began a couple of years back as an anti-mask organization. KK is virtually guaranteed to disappear down a vortex of child sexual abuse allegations before long, but we can legitimately hope for some high-quality entertainment between now and then.

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

Cornel West has thrown his hat in the ring and I'm looking forward to some interesting public (and ) discourse resulting from this.

Cornel West for President

Some Dems appear concerned that West's supporters will turn out to be Jilliots 2.0. I doubt that, but it's not impossible or anything.

[Stephen Maturin]

Don't panic, you guys. Meatball Ron would not accept if PAB offers him the VP spot on the GOP ticket.

Meatball Ron's "I'm not a No. 2 guy" is entirely correct, but not at all for the reason ol' Ron appears to believe.

[specious_reasons]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

Don't panic, you guys. Meatball Ron would not accept if PAB offers him the VP spot on the GOP ticket.

Meatball Ron's "I'm not a No. 2 guy" is entirely correct, but not at all for the reason ol' Ron appears to believe.

There's also that pesky 12th Amendment thing. I doubt Trump is going to change his residency to get Meatball Ron on the ticket.

[Stephen Maturin]

I'm sure Meatball Ron would be more than happy to try a Dick Cheney 2000 move, but Ron might have a bit more trouble denying FL residency than Heartless Dick had denying Texas residency.

[ChuckF]

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. press dinner explodes in war of words and farting

Here, it seems, Dechert sensed the need for a new rhetorical tack, and let rip a loud, prolonged fart while yelling, as if to underscore his point, “I’m farting!”

The room, which included a handful of journalists as well as RFK Jr.’s campaign manager, former Rep. Dennis Kucinich, was stunned, seemingly unsure about whether Dechert was farting at Haden-Guest personally or at the very notion of global warming.

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

Meatball Ron's "I'm not a No. 2 guy" is entirely correct, but not at all for the reason ol' Ron appears to believe.

austin powers- bathroom break** =P - YouTube

[Stephen Maturin]

RFK Jr.’s campaign manager, former Rep. Dennis Kucinich

It just keeps getting better! Well, maybe not "better," but . . . oh, you know!

show spoiler

[viscousmemories]

Huh? I honestly thought Kucinich was one of the good ones. Then again literally the only thing I remember about him is that he has a gorgeous amazonian wife.

[Stephen Maturin]

Yes indeed, once upon a time. In 2012, the wingnuts in the Ohio legislature reworked the congressional district boundaries so that Kucinich and my rep during my final 13 years in Ohio, Marcy Kaptur, ended up in the same district. Kaptur cruised to victory in the primary, ending Kucinich's long run in Congress.

To give you an idea of how blue that particular district was, Kaptur's GOP opponent in the general election that year was Joe the Plumber, who's first name was not Joe but rather Samuel, and who was not a plumber but rather an idiot.

Starting in 2013 or so, Kucinich became a regular Faux News contributor. He ultimately went full trumpanzee after PAB got elected. The disappointment over what ol' Dennis became compared to what he once was has long since faded for me, but seeing that signed on as shitburger's campaign manager was a moment just the same.

[LarsMac]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

Huh? I honestly thought Kucinich was one of the good ones. Then again literally the only thing I remember about him is that he has a gorgeous amazonian wife.

Yeah, I remember a time when he actually almost made sense.

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

In the 90s a lot of the proto-wingnuts made more sense, at least to me, in my 20s.

Unsure how much is “things got worse” and how much is “I learned stuff”.

[Pan Narrans]

Those aren't mutually exclusive.

Just saying.

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Well yeah, the “unsure how much” covered that.

[erimir]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

Cornel West has thrown his hat in the ring and I'm looking forward to some interesting public (and ) discourse resulting from this.

Cornel West for President

This is a good rundown...
Cornel West's vanity ratfucking campaign should not receive any votes from anyone anywhere on the left in any jurisdiction - Lawyers, Guns & Money

Basically, the case for Cornel West is no stronger than the case for Jill Stein, whatever merits West has over Stein are basically completely irrelevant as compared to the case against running a third-party campaign.

And given his recent praise of Ron DeSantis and "leftist" "Mr. Putin, who I do not support" criticism of the war in Ukraine, in addition to the typical Green Party delusion about how easy it would be to pass a far-left agenda even if they managed to win the presidency, there's not even really much case for Cornel West even when ignoring the electoral concerns.

If I could wave a wand and make Cornel West the Democratic nominee, replacing Joe Biden, and which people would simply accept as a valid outcome, I would not do it. Joe Biden is a better candidate than West and West would be a worse president than Biden, in my opinion.

Let us not be deceived: NATO is an expanding instrument of U.S. global power that provoked Russia into a criminal invasion and occupation of Ukraine. This proxy war between the American Empire and the Russian Federation could lead to World War III. We must stop the war and war…

— Cornel West (@CornelWest) July 10, 2023

(I could get into all the stupidity in this Ukraine tweet, but I'll note that West does not specify what he would consider a "just peace", which is pretty essential to understanding where the holdup in diplomacy is. If he thinks that Russia should withdraw to the territory they controlled in 2021, or withdraw from all but Crimea, etc. that wouldn't really be what I'd call a just peace, but the fact is that Putin has no interest in doing even that at the moment! He likely wouldn't even accept simply ratifying the current line of control - but even if he would, very few people outside Russia would agree that's a just outcome! But West would rather just say "just peace" than explain why Russia should be allowed to take a large chunk of Ukrainian territory. "Justice" in a vague sense is much easier to defend than anything specific. And conversely, his criticisms of the US and NATO's involvement would ring hollow if he acknowledged that Putin has no interest in anything a normal person would consider a just peace.)

[viscousmemories]

Cornel west is an intellectual giant and passionate activist, and has been consistent in his commitment to leftist activism for decades. Even as an atheist I appreciate that his "revolutionary Christianity" is closer to what I understand about the teachings of Jesus Christ than most modern "Christians". He also was clear and vocal that people should vote for Biden in opposition to Trump when it came down to it in 2020. I believe he will take the same position in 2024 when it comes down to it. In the meantime I think he stands a good chance of inspiring a lot of people who don't think the current administration is the best we can do as a country. I do have doubts about his political sensibility* but I don't mind having a passionate proponent of universal healthcare, housing, jobs, unions, lgbtq rights, etc. on the talk circuit over the next year.

Originally Posted by erimir

This is a good rundown...
Cornel West's vanity ratfucking campaign should not receive any votes from anyone anywhere on the left in any jurisdiction - Lawyers, Guns & Money

A good rundown? It seems more like a frothing rant. I tried to read it with an open mind but genuinely could not parse an argument.


I like Sam's take on (most things, but also) this analysis of West's flip to the Greens:

Cornel West DUMPS People’s Party - YouTube

* As one must given that he initially decided to run as the candidate for the People's Party, clearly not having done his due diligence. I can also imagine him having a harder time building coalitions than Biden, although I don't think there's much need for cross-party coalitions in the current environment. Still, I think he would be better than Biden on immigration, support for labor unions, military (not likely to give the Pentagon more than Congress approved, e.g.), and cracking down on big finance.

[LarsMac]

At this point in the political evolution of the US, we are stuck with the two party shitstorm. No one is going to get into the White House without the backing of either the Democrat party, or the Republican party. that is a given.
And even if we somehow bring up some relatively unaffiliated and a powerful individual to take the seat without one of the major party's backing, that individual would not be able to accomplish anything without sucking up to the Party Big Dogs.

Like Bernie and Gary and all the other outsiders, all West can do is influence the conversation, and maybe get the party leaders to work on their agenda.
Even if they managed to win the election, they'd be orphans.

The best we can hope for in 2024 is to minimize the majority, making both parties have to work together to get anything accomplished. And of course that will create a whole new set of problems to be dealt with.

I hate Politics.

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

lol, Jews

[erimir]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

Cornel west is an intellectual giant and passionate activist, and has been consistent in his commitment to leftist activism for decades.

I don't think he's had much intellectual output since the 90s, he's more focused on being a media figure, being in the Matrix movies, going on Bill Maher, etc. His behavior makes more sense as a passion for self-promotion in his later years. Michael Eric Dyson had this to say about him back in 2015: The Ghost of Cornel West - the rise and fall of our most exciting black scholar

He also was clear and vocal that people should vote for Biden in opposition to Trump when it came down to it in 2020.

But in 2016, he endorsed Jill Stein, not thinking "Brother Trump" was so important to stop then. After all, he was a more "authentic human being" (his words) in contrast to Clinton.

He also endorsed Ralph Nader in 2000, and made appearances with Jill Stein in 2012.

I believe he will take the same position in 2024 when it comes down to it.

And it WILL come down to it. But like I said, he didn't take that position in 2016 or 2000. History suggests West only sees the necessity of defeating Republicans during the reality of Republican governance, so I would take his history of supporting Democratic opponents during Democratic administrations as more informative than one election.

At any rate, he has no chance of winning and there's no case to make that he will help Biden win - as would be expected, he takes votes from Biden. The Green Party is not interested in stepping down and endorsing the Democrat and I rather doubt that's his intention either. After all, since the 2020 election, we saw Trump attempt a violent coup, and is the GOP frontrunner, yet West is running and making statements attacking the Democrats but not the GOP like the tweet I shared. Hardly suggests he's thinking like you on this. If he wants Trump to lose, he shouldn't be running at all.

But we'll see who's right.

In the meantime I think he stands a good chance of inspiring a lot of people who don't think the current administration is the best we can do as a country.

I see no reason to expect a different result than prior Green Party campaigns, which inspired very little, and in their most successful runs (2000, 2016) guaranteed and significantly aided, respectively, the election of two disastrous, very right-wing presidents. Maybe you disagree. In which case, what are the achievements? People try to defend Nader and Stein by saying they didn't help Bush/Trump win, but what did they achieve? The best defense of them is that they merely achieved nothing, rather than helping create disasters.

And there was not a huge left-wing revolution in response to those elections either - after those disasters, we got Obama ("a Rockefeller Republican in blackface" according to Cornel West) and Biden (who West wants to run against now!).

By contrast, Bernie Sanders, for all the criticism I have of him (some horrible hiring decisions, for example), sensibly ran in the Democratic primary and was far more successful in inspiring leftist energy than any Green Party anything ever. West isn't running in the Democratic primary after seeing that success and the contrasting failure of the Green Party. I can't think of any good explanation of that (the kindest one would undermine the claim that he's an intellectual giant to this day). And unlike West, Bernie Sanders has achieved some things in politics. He parlayed his success in the primaries into chairing the Senate Budget Committee and the HELP Committee. And the guy who has actually done the thing you're saying you hope West will achieve has done what this election? Oh, he's endorsed Joe Biden. I would trust Sanders's political instincts more than West's. (Oh and AOC and Jamal Bowman and Ilhan Omar, while we're at it.)

The idea that a Green Party candidacy is going to inspire big progressive energy this time (rather than just draining votes and energy from the Democratic Party and helping the GOP) is just this meme

A good rundown? It seems more like a frothing rant. I tried to read it with an open mind but genuinely could not parse an argument.

Lemieux might be a bit ranty, but did you click through to the Eric Levitz piece?

As one must given that he initially decided to run as the candidate for the People's Party, clearly not having done his due diligence.

I mean, I was right about the People's Party and right about Glenn Greenwald, and Tulsi Gabbard, and so on, but maybe I'm wrong this time...

I can also imagine him having a harder time building coalitions than Biden, although I don't think there's much need for cross-party coalitions in the current environment.

He needs support within the Democratic Party too. Even in a very optimistic scenario where West somehow won while not only not undermining Democratic congressional candidates, but boosting them, nothing is passing Congress without the votes of the 1-5 most conservative Senate Democrats, and the votes of the most conservative 10-20% of House Democrats.

I don't see any way that someone like Joe Manchin, Jon Tester or even Sherrod Brown can afford to be seen as a rubber stamp for Cornel West in their home states.

Still, I think he would be better than Biden on immigration, support for labor unions, military (not likely to give the Pentagon more than Congress approved, e.g.), and cracking down on big finance.

Maybe, but you have to remember he needs politics to accomplish all those things. He needs NLRB members confirmed, he needs courts or Congress to sign off on his immigration plans, he needs to confirm judges, he needs Congress to pass financial regulations or any budget adjusting military spending. All of those require him to win over people currently far to his right, something I have no confidence in his ability to do.

Of course, there's no plan on how to do any of those things from Green Party types. Just yada yada bully pulpit, on the assumption that the only thing stopping progressive revolution in the US is the lack of a compelling speech.

How he gets more progressive results than Biden while being less effective at winning over moderates whose votes he needs, I'm not sure.

I also notice you don't even attempt a defense of that statement on Ukraine...

[Stephen Maturin]

Following a slew of missteps, Meatball Ron's campaign is rolling like a goddamn juggernaut now.

[erimir]

Brother West didn't do his due diligence on the People's Party, and has apparently not done his due diligence on Glenn Greenwald either:

Cornel West says Glenn Greenwald has been "a force for good for so long" and "consistent". pic.twitter.com/welNxp6TZ4

— Post-Left Watch (@PostLeftWatch) July 26, 2023

And I'm guessing he will have many more failures of due diligence as his campaign continues, since when your focus becomes damaging the Democrats, you will tend to overlook quite a lot and ally yourself with some unsavory people.

Although I would say that Brother West becoming basically a Republican like Matt Taibbi and Glenn Greenwald seems a bit further off. Although he clearly is unbothered by that, and was willing to praise Ron DeSantis, so who knows...