A revolution in thought

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

But I thought it was undeniable?

It is undeniable knowledge. And because it's undeniable, it's important.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by davidm

Dread double post.

As long as I destroyed more important knowledge than Maturin. After all, he has plenty of hair, but little substance.

Actually, he has little hair and little substance. But he knows I have a thing for bald men.

[Sidhe]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Actually, he has little hair and little substance. But he knows I have a thing for bald men.

You have a sense of humour after all!

Heaven be praised.

Generally most of the idiots on this forum don't and will never have one unless some cunt tells them how to have one. You must just laugh at what we do because we are the best in funny we are all that funny is!

I am at least pleased that you have one because these cunts are fucking hopeless generally, if you say something funny it isn't if you say something that isn't funny it's funny; if you are alive it's funny then some cuntard will tell you what is funny fight, wank, spunk and retreat to your cunt hill. Spunk in your face and knowing now how to have funny!

It's depressing that according to most people on this forum humour is basically how you are told to think, so if some remtard says it aint funny it aint, cause it just aint...

Jesus wept. You fucking dull little mushroom moron.

Madre de dios! What I think is funny is jsut is; isn't it!

Wasn't it: I started this forum to prove that I am the shiz and you aint gonna tell me what aint!

I am funner, I am remtard. I am right about funtard, I have it down.

Giid goss

It is though but another fall of man that some idiot just has the whole shebang on cuntery and you rats just follow.

Peacegirl is right there is no free will, you ironically have proven it: well done.

Assholes.

Wait a minute though if I have no free will, how now shall I act.

Ask your fucking master you remtard.

God fucking Christ on a bike you are but another fall of man: well done.

You're like...

Dull and boring and zombies. Well fucking done.

I give fucking up I really do.

"You give up good welcome to our slavish devotion to some shithole cunt who runs this forum wants you to believe you cunt."

He is the fucking antichrist he exists to just enslave you , fucking for GOds sake tell him he is a cunt. Stop sucking cock!

Tomorrow first thing you do is leave this fucking shite hole, tell the cunt who runs it he's a cunt and then learn to think for your fucking self you dumb fucking cunt. honestly what is the fucking matter with you?

whiny self obsessed autistic cunts!

If you had half a brain you'd have 1/8th of one.

"No you are wrong because you are wrong my fucking God told me."

Shesus fucking wept what is up with you cuntards?

Good fucking God what are you, you aint human that's for sure!

Dull little mushrooms in a dull little black room being told how to think by some dumb little fucking mushroom.

You disgust me. YOu make me fucking sick to my stomach you worms.

This forum is just a troll reeling you in to servitude like the dull little cunt you are. It pains me to say it but you just got trolled into being a dull lifeless cunt by the best of them. You fucking idiot.

Wake up - Rage Against The Machine - YouTube

Cunting in the name of!

killing in the name of matrix - YouTube

[naturalist.atheist]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

It is undeniable knowledge. And because it's undeniable, it's important.

Then is should be a very boring book. Since undeniable knowledge is knowledge that is obvious, and obvious knowledge is boring. Because its .... errrr, ... obvious.

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by davidm

As long as I destroyed more important knowledge than Maturin.

Clearly. You am become death, my brother. I was in it primarily for the lulz/outrage porn.

Just be mindful of your place in the Grand Scheme. I'm the one who's been declared In Charge of All Knowledge. Respect mah authoritah or I will declare vision efferent.

Originally Posted by davidm

After all, he has plenty of hair, but little substance.

I am also a complete and total son of a bitch. And nuts.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Of course they could be paralyzed by indecision. One does not have to make a choice to be moving in the direction of greater satisfaction. You are very confused over the word 'choice' which I mentioned early on.

But you don't have to make a choice to be moving in this direction. Animals don't choose; they just do. You are confused over this word as if to say you have to make a choice between two things for this knowledge to be accurate. I didn't realize how hard this would be to explain.

Originally Posted by Angakuk

Perhaps you could take a moment and give us your definition of 'choice'. Because you are right, I am confused about how someone can make a choice in the direction of greater satisfaction when they are unable to make a choice.

You are getting confused because you think that a quandary over choice negates this law. It does not. Please keep in mind that every single movement is in this direction. Choice is a delusion because we cannot move in any other direction than the direction of greater satisfaction, even if, at that moment in time, we choose nothing.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

You tell me it's still wrong, when I know it's not.

Originally Posted by Angakuk

This does not show a desire to learn; it shows me that you are positive you are right without question, and that's what will kill this thread.

What can I say?

Originally Posted by Angakuk

This criticism applies equally well to all of your responses. You tell me I'm wrong, when I know I am not. This does not show a desire to learn; it shows me that you are positive you are right without question, and that's what will kill this thread.

You are absolutely wrong Angakuk. I'm sorry.

Originally Posted by Angakuk

QED

What does that stand for?

Originally Posted by Angakuk

I will just point out that I have no vested interested in being right, beyond the usual human desire to be right. You, on the other hand, have a very strong motive for wanting to be right. Your emotional committment to Lessans being proven right provides you with a compelling motive to be proven right. So, all things considered, who is the more likely to resist any argument that threatens their position?

That's a false argument. The only bearing on my being right, is that I'm right.

Originally Posted by Angakuk

And you have the gall to accuse me of sounding smug.

I'm not being smug at all. I just don't know how to explain this any better, and I'm frustrated.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Well if you are convinced you're right and he's wrong, then we're done, because no one seems to have any questions.

Originally Posted by Angakuk

What a cop out.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Sidhe

You have a sense of humour after all!

Heaven be praised.

Generally most of the idiots on this forum don't and will never have one unless some cunt tells them how to have one. You must just laugh at what we do because we are the best in funny we are all that funny is!

I am at least pleased that you have one because these cunts are fucking hopeless generally, if you say something funny it isn't if you say something that isn't funny it's funny; if you are alive it's funny then some cuntard will tell you what is funny fight, wank, spunk and retreat to your cunt hill. Spunk in your face and knowing now how to have funny!

It's depressing that according to most people on this forum humour is basically how you are told to think, so if some remtard says it aint funny it aint, cause it just aint...

Jesus wept. You fucking dull little mushroom moron.

Madre de dios! What I think is funny is jsut is; isn't it!

Wasn't it: I started this forum to prove that I am the shiz and you aint gonna tell me what aint!

I am funner, I am remtard. I am right about funtard, I have it down.

Giid goss

It is though but another fall of man that some idiot just has the whole shebang on cuntery and you rats just follow.

Peacegirl is right there is no free will, you ironically have proven it: well done.

Assholes.

Wait a minute though if I have no free will, how now shall I act.

Ask your fucking master you remtard.

God fucking Christ on a bike you are but another fall of man: well done.

You're like...

Dull and boring and zombies. Well fucking done.

I give fucking up I really do.

"You give up good welcome to our slavish devotion to some shithole cunt who runs this forum wants you to believe you cunt."

He is the fucking antichrist he exists to just enslave you , fucking for GOds sake tell him he is a cunt. Stop sucking cock!

Tomorrow first thing you do is leave this fucking shite hole, tell the cunt who runs it he's a cunt and then learn to think for your fucking self you dumb fucking cunt. honestly what is the fucking matter with you?

whiny self obsessed autistic cunts!

If you had half a brain you'd have 1/8th of one.

"No you are wrong because you are wrong my fucking God told me."

Shesus fucking wept what is up with you cuntards?

Good fucking God what are you, you aint human that's for sure!

Dull little mushrooms in a dull little black room being told how to think by some dumb little fucking mushroom.

You disgust me. YOu make me fucking sick to my stomach you worms.

This forum is just a troll reeling you in to servitude like the dull little cunt you are. It pains me to say it but you just got trolled into being a dull lifeless cunt by the best of them. You fucking idiot.

Cunting in the name of!

That was humorous Sidhe. You're very funny. But what the fuck prompted that rant?

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

Clearly. You am become death, my brother. I was in it primarily for the lulz/outrage porn.

Just be mindful of your place in the Grand Scheme. I'm the one who's been declared In Charge of All Knowledge. Respect mah authoritah or I will declare vision efferent.

I am also a complete and total son of a bitch. And nuts.

[Angakuk]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Choice is a delusion because we cannot move in any other direction than the direction of greater satisfaction

All along your claim has been that we always choose in the direction of greater satisfaction. If, however, choice is a delusion then it must also be the case that choosing in the direction of greater satisfaction is a delusion. If it is true that choosing in the direction of greater satisfaction is a delusion, then it cannot also be true that we choose in the direction of greater satisfaction.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

What does that stand for?

Q.E.D. is an abbreviation for "quod erat demonstrandum". It is shorthand for saying that that which was to be proved has been proved. In this particular instance it was my way of indicating that you had, by your own words/actions, just demonstrated the truth of my claim. In other words, you made my point for me.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Angakuk

All along your claim has been that we always choose in the direction of greater satisfaction. If, however, choice is a delusion then it must also be the case that choosing in the direction of greater satisfaction is a delusion. If it is true that choosing in the direction of greater satisfaction is a delusion, then it cannot also be true that we choose in the direction of greater satisfaction.

That's not correct Angakuk. To say that choosing is a delusion only means that we cannot move in the direction of dissatisfaction when a better alternative is available to us. Therefore we really have no free choice.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

What does that stand for?

Originally Posted by Angakuk

Q.E.D. is an abbreviation for "quod erat demonstrandum". It is shorthand for saying that that which was to be proved has been proved. In this particular instance it was my way of indicating that you had, by your own words/actions, just demonstrated the truth of my claim. In other words, you made my point for me.

Thanks for explaining QED to me, but I have no idea where my words/actions demonstrated the truth of your claim. What point are you talking about?

[Angakuk]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

That's not correct Angakuk. To say that choosing is a delusion only means that we cannot move in the direction of dissatisfaction when a better alternative is available to us. Therefore we really have no free choice.

I guess we can add 'choice' to the list of words and phrases to which you, or Lessans, have attached your own idiosyncratic definitions.

choice
movement
greater
scientific
mathematical
determinism
free will
proof
evidence

You really ought to provide a glossary. You are practically speaking a different language.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Thanks for explaining QED to me, but I have no idea where my words/actions demonstrated the truth of your claim. What point are you talking about?

This one.

Originally Posted by Angakuk

This criticism applies equally well to all of your responses. You tell me I'm wrong, when I know I am not. This does not show a desire to learn; it shows me that you are positive you are right without question, and that's what will kill this thread.

[Sidhe]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

That was humorous Sidhe. You're very funny. But what the fuck prompted that rant?

The entire forum and I mean entire has been told by the idiot who runs this place to put me on ignore, literally you angakuk and Doc are the only people who can see anything I post.

Basically that means I can say whatever I like and the cock sucking retards can't read it.

Now that is what I call free speech.

Hence therefore freed of any constraint by the pod people that are this cult forum I do so.

[Angakuk]

Originally Posted by Sidhe

The entire forum and I mean entire has been told by the idiot who runs this place to put me on ignore

I sincerely doubt that such is the case. Either that or I just didn't get the memo.

[Sidhe]

Originally Posted by Angakuk

I sincerely doubt that such is the case. Either that or I just didn't get the memo.

Probably you seem to be out of the loop on everything.

The only reason doc hasn't out me on ignore is he never does.

Apparently the fucktard mindless gimp or "Admin" as he is otherwise known forgot to include you in the memo, presumably he doubts your commitment to his religion?

I would personally count myself lucky, they are preparing the cyanide cocktails and praying towards the mothership as we speak.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Angakuk

All along your claim has been that we always choose in the direction of greater satisfaction. If, however, choice is a delusion then it must also be the case that choosing in the direction of greater satisfaction is a delusion. If it is true that choosing in the direction of greater satisfaction is a delusion, then it cannot also be true that we choose in the direction of greater satisfaction.

That's not correct Angakuk. To say that choosing is a delusion only means that we cannot move in the direction of dissatisfaction when a better alternative is available to us. Therefore we really have no free choice.

Originally Posted by Angakuk

I guess we can add 'choice' to the list of words and phrases to which you, or Lessans, have attached your own idiosyncratic definitions.

choice
movement
greater
scientific
mathematical
determinism
free will
proof
evidence

You really ought to provide a glossary. You are practically speaking a different language.

Angakuk, we're trying to get at the truth. The most important thing is not whether a definition is idiosyncratic, but whether the word accurately defines what is going on in reality.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Thanks for explaining QED to me, but I have no idea where my words/actions demonstrated the truth of your claim. What point are you talking about?

Originally Posted by Angakuk

This one.

Originally Posted by Angakuk

This criticism applies equally well to all of your responses. You tell me I'm wrong, when I know I am not. This does not show a desire to learn; it shows me that you are positive you are right without question, and that's what will kill this thread.

The only thing that will kill this thread is people rejecting this work prematurely.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Sidhe

The entire forum and I mean entire has been told by the idiot who runs this place to put me on ignore, literally you angakuk and Doc are the only people who can see anything I post.

Basically that means I can say whatever I like and the cock sucking retards can't read it.

Now that is what I call free speech.

Hence therefore freed of any constraint by the pod people that are this cult forum I do so.

So now that you're free of constaint you can actually concentrate freely on what is meant by determinism.

[Sidhe]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

So now that you're free of constaint you can actually concentrate freely on what is meant by determinism.

I have free will, and there is the proof right there.

No one will thank me for resolving an age old question though, in fact telling people they are free will only cause horror and consternation.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Sidhe

I have free will, and there is the proof right there.

No one will thank me for resolving an age old question though, in fact telling people they are free will only cause horror and consternation.

No you don't have free will. Just because you have no constraints on you doesn't make your will free. Of course you don't understand the reason for this, which is why you have rejected this knowledge outright.

[peacegirl]

I'm not religious, but you may take it this way. Just know that if man's will is not free, we are forgiven. Think about it; we don't have to feel guilty because our choices were compelled. I can't tell you the freedom I have felt from these words. I hope you feel the same because it's not made up to make you feel better. It's the truth.

[Sidhe]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

No you don't have free will. Just because you have no constraints on you doesn't make your will free. Of course you don't understand the reason for this, which is why you have rejected this knowledge outright.

Er that's a complete paradoxical statement you know.

[Sidhe]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I'm not religious, but you may take it this way. Just know that if man's will is not free, we are forgiven. Think about it; we don't have to feel guilty because our choices were compelled.

Why would I need to be forgiven anyway?

I don't nor would feel guilty if I was a slave to my desires, that's the point. if that is the case then I can do nothing but what my nature tells me; a psychopath is born that way, it is a mental disorder, if he feels no guilt or shame it is because that is the way nature has made him, in some ways he is the archetype of a slave, but in others he is the only person who understands how to be free, or should I say what being free is. The argument of feeling guilt would only arise if I could chose to do otherwise than my nature programmes me to. If I have free will then it follows I could of done differently in any given situation: then and only then does the moral question arise.

I can't tell you the freedom I have felt from these words.

Indeed.

I hope you feel the same because it's not made up to make you feel better. It's the truth.

There is no truth there is merely objective knowledge and objective doubt and some evidence.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Sidhe

Er that's a complete paradoxical statement you know.

No it isn't.

[Sidhe]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

No it isn't.

The very definition of free will is having no constraints on your will so yes it is.

Some arguments go along moral agency lines too, some see it as superfluous. Usually the decider is determinism, does it exist. Science says probably not, philosophers are divided.

free will
Noun: The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
Adjective: (esp. of a donation) Given readily; voluntary: "free-will offerings". More »
Wikipedia - Dictionary.com - Answers.com - Merriam-Webster
►

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Sidhe

Why would I need to be forgiven anyway?

I don't nor would feel guilty if I was a slave to my desires, that's the point.

Who's talking about being a slave to your desires?

Originally Posted by Sidhe

if that is the case then I can do nothing but what my nature tells me; a psychopath is born that way, it is a mental disorder, if he feels no guilt or shame it is because that is the way nature has made him, in some ways he is the archetype of a slave, but in others he is the only person who understands how to be free, or should I say what being free is.

Why is that? And who is talking about being born a psychopath?

Originally Posted by Sidhe

The argument of feeling guilt would only arise if I could chose to do otherwise than my nature programmes me to. If I have free will then it follows I could of done differently in any given situation: then and only then does the moral question arise.

But it's impossible to do other than your nature dictates. That's what you are failing to understand.

I can't tell you the freedom I have felt from these words.

Originally Posted by Sidhe

Indeed.

I hope you feel the same because it's not made up to make you feel better. It's the truth.

Originally Posted by Sidhe

There is no truth there is merely objective knowledge and objective doubt and some evidence.

But the evidence is there if only could see it.

[Sidhe]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Who's talking about being a slave to your desires?

You are by using the term that is what is most satisfactory?

Hang on are you even reading what people say?

Why is that? And who is talking about being born a psychopath?

It was an example to make an argument. I was making a studied point. A case for the person who is controlled by his condition, in this case being a psychopath but one could just as easily substitute zombie or anything really.

But it's impossible to do other than your nature dictates. That's what you are failing to understand.

Prove it then.

But the evidence bears out.

What evidence?


And please for god sake don't say you have not read the book, show me the money or shut the fuck up.

The onus is on you to prove a contention not on us to disprove it, you must then show something to make your argument.

Just saying "but it is just true!" Is no substitute for actual evidence.