It is rather depressing to see people spending tens of thousands of hours on projects that are doomed from the outset because one or more of their pillars are invalid assumptions.
Well . . . you DO get a great collection of Silly Hats:
All people do not have the same talents or abilities and not all to the same level. Clearly some people are better at some things than others, and different people do somethings well, other things not as well, and still others not at all. Variety makes life interesting and enjoyable but often leads to conflict and hurt. Years ago I read a story about a young man who wished to be the best singer in the world. He could sing but wasn't very good. He did enjoy listining to other vocalists and had recordings and would attend concerts. Somehow he was granted a wish (I don't remember the details) he made his wish and sure enough the next morning he was the best singer in the world, but to his horror his voice was not any better than the day before. All the other singers in the world now could not sing or had voices that were not as good as his. Different abilities, different outlooks, different goals in life, be careful what you wish for, removing all evil may not get you what you expect.
Interesting story, but I don't see where removing all evil (all hurt in human relations) could have anything negative attached to it. I don't know about you, but I would be much happier knowing my teenager was going to come back home alive than be cut down by a drunk driver. Where is there any good in someone you love getting killed senselessly. You tell me.
It is rather depressing to see people spending tens of thousands of hours on projects that are doomed from the outset because one or more of their pillars are invalid assumptions.
Well . . . you DO get a great collection of Silly Hats:
which . . .
. . . people try to steal!
--J.D.
I agree with you. My time is precious, and I would not like to waste it on something that was false. But there are no false assumptions, no sleight of hand revelations, or anything but accurate observations. The fact that no one discovered this might be a shock to you, and that's why you can't believe it's really a genuine discovery and can accomplish what it claims it can.
In my previous post I have discussed 'Observation and 'Greater Satisfaction' which the author used to demonstrate that Humans do not have 'Free Will' and that the world is 'Deterministic'. He then further asserts that because of this there is no more blame to be applied to any action. All there points will be the subject of further dialogue but in this line of reasoning they are all based on a faulty premise derived from misunderstood observation. But they are all irrevelant to the topic. The author claims that without blame there will be no more hurt in the world and all evil will be eliminated. This is the final fallacy of his argument. For all this to happen all people would need to think the same way, believe the same way, and to have the same ideals and goals, this is clearly not the case. You cannot paint all the people with the same brush, one size does not fil all. Not only do people have different ideas, goals, and desires, people have different levels of ability. If you ask 50 people for an opinion on any topic you will get 45 different opinions and some of those will be in opposition to others. Oh, there will also be 5 who don't have an opinion or don't care. Removing blame will not accomplish the results promised there will still be people who will want to hurt others in one way or another. There will still be people who will want to tell others what to do and how to do it, and some who will not want to be told. Removing blame is the false promise to achieve a goal that cannot be achived. To achive that goal all people would needto loose all desire, all need, and all want, for anything that is their own. In that world everyone would be content to do and have what they were told, but without desire, need, or want, no-one would make any decisions. In effect there would be no movement of any kind. all would be stagnant. Without desire there would be no satisfaction of any kind, you might remove all evil but you would remove everything else as well. Not a place I want to be.
This is the danger of not reading the work fully. Not blaming others is not the discovery. You have taken that one phrase and used it inappropriately. The knowledge that man's will is the key that unlocks the door to the discovery. Obviously, you did not read Chapter Two. And what you said about the world being stagnant, no satisfaction of any kind, no need or want, no decisions to make, shows me you didn't even understand his definition of determinism. It doesn't do any of those things. From what you've written, you haven't understood the first thing about this knowledge.
The first step on the road to recovery is agreeing with me, yes.
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My time is precious, and I would not like to waste it on something that was false.
Which you have done.
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But there are no false assumptions, . . .
They have been shown to you. That you refuse to look at them remains your error.
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The fact that no one discovered this might be a shock to you, . . .
No, I find argumentum ad ignorantiam rather mundane and common. You see it from every Holocaust Denier, every conspiracy theorist, every crackpot who thinks they have discovered some gnosis "no one else" knows. They scream it--as you do. Impotently. For, deep down, they know they cannot prove it.
For that is the nature of actual "extraordinary discoveries"--they prove rather easy to support.
The first step on the road to recovery is agreeing with me, yes.
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My time is precious, and I would not like to waste it on something that was false.
Which you have done.
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But there are no false assumptions, . . .
They have been shown to you. That you refuse to look at them remains your error.
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The fact that no one discovered this might be a shock to you, . . .
No, I find argumentum ad ignorantiam rather mundane and common. You see it from every Holocaust Denier, every conspiracy theorist, every crackpot who thinks they have discovered some gnosis "no one else" knows. They scream it--as you do. Impotently. For, deep down, they know they cannot prove it.
For that is the nature of actual "extraordinary discoveries"--they prove rather easy to support.
I know . . . I know . . .
. . . they laughed at your theories in Berlin.
--J.D.
I'm not here to win your approval. Take it or leave it.
Sorry to tell you that, but it did bring me the greatest satisfaction to post this at this point in time.
So go to other threads where the people are much more intelligent. I won't be offended. This is exactly why these forums are not the right place for me. The group dynamics cause extreme bias (even though some people are trying to hold their own), and it becomes a free for all. By the way, you are right in that the words you just spoke to intentionally hurt me did bring you greater satisfaction.
I'm not here to win your approval. Take it or leave it.
Of course you are
No I'm not.
Yes, you are.
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You're a cynic, . . .
Sorry, not even a Cynic. I merely like EVIDENCE for claims. This is the thing you do not have.
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. . . and you aren't even trying to understand this knowledge.
You have no knowledge to understand. This uncomfortable fact proved cleared a few pages ago. Now you are just basically a chew-toy.
--J.D.
Oh really, kind of like eye candy? It's such a joke to me that I'm laughing. But obviously, you here for a reason. So be here if you want to. It makes no difference to me.
I want to add that I am so weirded out by this group experience (among many) that if someone said I confer with you completely, they would be rejected by the group. Do you see the pressure here? The most important thing in life is being accepted, so do see the problem this presents?
My time is precious, and I would not like to waste it on something that was false. But there are no false assumptions...
That's easy for you to say when you either ignore or deny claims to the contrary. Oh, look! A false assumption has been pointed out. Ignore it. Never mind. You already did.
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Originally Posted by Seraph
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Originally Posted by peacegirl
...blame and punishment are the very basis of our civilization, for this is the only deterrent man has in order to stop people from doing bad things...
The basis is "Do unto others as you would have them unto you." Although this principle for social cohesion, harmony and interaction is best known from the bible, it precedes christianity and most likely written history. That, more than the fear of blame and punishment, is what gives rise to altruistic (rather than "evil") behaviour within societies, and there is evidence that If It Feels Good to Be Good, It Might Be Only Natural.
It is rather depressing to see people spending tens of thousands of hours on projects that are doomed from the outset because one or more of their pillars are invalid assumptions.
My time is precious, and I would not like to waste it on something that was false. But there are no false assumptions...
That's easy for you to say when you either ignore or deny claims to the contrary. Oh, look! A false assumption has been pointed out. Ignore it. Never mind. You already did.
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Originally Posted by Seraph
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Originally Posted by peacegirl
...blame and punishment are the very basis of our civilization, for this is the only deterrent man has in order to stop people from doing bad things...
The basis is "Do unto others as you would have them unto you." Although this principle for social cohesion, harmony and interaction is best known from the bible, it precedes christianity and most likely written history. That, more than the fear of blame and punishment, is what gives rise to altruistic (rather than "evil") behaviour within societies, and there is evidence that If It Feels Good to Be Good, It Might Be Only Natural.
It is rather depressing to see people spending tens of thousands of hours on projects that are doomed from the outset because one or more of their pillars are invalid assumptions.
Who are you to come in here without an ounce of understanding and espouse what has eluded you entirely? Tell me, what is the discovery? Since you know so much, it should be easy for you tell me without going back. That would be cheating.
Seraph, you don't hold weight no matter what you are trying to achieve. You lose not because I want to be the winner, but because you don't have any weight to stand on.
I want to add that I am so weirded out by this group experience...
Then why aren't you moving away from it toward greater satisfaction?
Because the possibility that other people will understand this knowledge gives me greater satisfaction than leaving prematurely.
Of course. That's the problem. Whatever you pick is simply defined to be the "greatest satisfaction," rendering the entire thesis tautological and hence useless.
Grafman and others are using brain imaging and psychological experiments to study whether the brain has a built-in moral compass. The results -- many of them published just in recent months -- are showing, unexpectedly, that many aspects of morality appear to be hard-wired in the brain, most likely the result of evolutionary processes that began in other species.
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Originally Posted by peacegirl
Where does this conflict with anything that was written?
This proves the author's case actually (funny isn't it?), so where is the argument?
I want to add that I am so weirded out by this group experience...
Then why aren't you moving away from it toward greater satisfaction?
Because the possibility that other people will understand this knowledge gives me greater satisfaction than leaving prematurely.
Of course. That's the problem. Whatever you pick is simply defined to be the "greatest satisfaction," rendering the entire thesis tautological and hence useless.
Davidm, you seem to be stuck on a false logic. Until you recognize that this is not a tautology, you will continue to say that he is wrong. You can do that, but you will miss out on a major discovery. What more can I say?
Re: A revolution in thought
Linear Mode
