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  #52576  
Old 09-12-2024, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

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So you have no evidence.
The evidence is obvious but you don’t want to accept it. Show me a counter example that proves him wrong. You haven’t done that because you can’t. The burden of proof is on him and he described very carefully why dogs cannot recognize through sight and why humans can. You don’t seem interested as to why he used dogs are incapable of sight recognition without other cues such as gait. You didn’t read anything so there’s no point if all you keep saying is he has no evidence. How do astronauts learn about space? Through their powerful telescopes and observation.
You just admitted in your post above this one that there was no evidence. You need to present actual evidence or stop saying there is evidence. Otherwise you are lying.

I did read every use of the word dog in what you linked and saw no evidence. You can tell me what page/paragraph it is presented on if you still want to claim it is there.
I don't believe you read the chapter. You expect a certain kind of evidence, which already proves to me that you were not open to his observations. Show me a dog that can recognize his master from a picture. He should be able to if the light is carrying the image to his eye. Show me that a dog can recognize his master from a computer screen. The light should easily reach his eye in order for recognition to occur. Why then can't he? Dogs can identify certain objects because they have formed a relationship between the object/behavior and the sound or command, but when recognition becomes more difficult, such as identifying facial characteristics, they don't have the ability to distinguish between one face and another. This could easily be demonstrated using an experiment. Line up ten people who have a similar shape. Then without the ability to get a whiff of his master (which would be a giveaway and ruin the experiment), see what happens. If the light from his master in a lineup is traveling to his eye, he should immediately give some indication that recognition has taken place whether it's turning toward his master, running up to him without his sense of smell kicking in, or some other indication. But this never happens. Dogs need their sense of smell or sound (to a lesser degree) as confirmation. Even my own dog would slowly come up to me not knowing if it was actually me when I walked in the house until he recognized me by smell. I don't know about you, but observation gives us a clear indication that this is true. Can't you see how convinced people are that the eyes are a sense organ because science says it's been settled? You don't think this influences people to poke jabs at this author? Of course it does. If you are sincerely interested, then read Chapter Two. It's spelled out for you. If you're not interested, please don't keep asking me for evidence. Thanking you in advance.

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Blah blah blah.

As noted, we’ve already given you links to science studies showing that dogs can recognize their human partners from photos and videos alone, by sight alone, and more recently, studies showing dogs can converse with us using soundboards and understand what we and they are saying.
I saw the flawed experiment with levers. I have never seen a photo or video alone that indicated dogs can recognize their masters. None. Send them to me if you can find them. Where did soundboards enter into this? We are talking about sight, not sound. Why are you conflating the two?
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  #52577  
Old 09-12-2024, 07:36 PM
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So you have no evidence.
The evidence is obvious but you don’t want to accept it. Show me a counter example that proves him wrong. You haven’t done that because you can’t. The burden of proof is on him and he described very carefully why dogs cannot recognize through sight and why humans can. You don’t seem interested as to why he used dogs are incapable of sight recognition without other cues such as gait. You didn’t read anything so there’s no point if all you keep saying is he has no evidence. How do astronauts learn about space? Through their powerful telescopes and observation.
You just admitted in your post above this one that there was no evidence. You need to present actual evidence or stop saying there is evidence. Otherwise you are lying.

I did read every use of the word dog in what you linked and saw no evidence. You can tell me what page/paragraph it is presented on if you still want to claim it is there.
I don't believe you read the chapter. You expect a certain kind of evidence, which already proves to me that you were not open to his observations. Show me a dog that can recognize his master from a picture. He should be able to if the light is carrying the image to his eye. Show me that a dog can recognize his master from a computer screen. The light should easily reach his eye in order for recognition to occur. Why then can't he? Dogs can identify certain objects because they have formed a relationship between the object/behavior and the sound or command, but when recognition becomes more difficult, such as identifying facial characteristics, they don't have the ability to distinguish between one face and another. This could easily be demonstrated using an experiment. Line up ten people who have a similar shape. Then without the ability to get a whiff of his master (which would be a giveaway and ruin the experiment), see what happens. If the light from his master in a lineup is traveling to his eye, he should immediately give some indication that recognition has taken place whether it's turning toward his master, running up to him without his sense of smell kicking in, or some other indication. But this never happens. Dogs need their sense of smell or sound (to a lesser degree) as confirmation. Even my own dog would slowly come up to me not knowing if it was actually me when I walked in the house until he recognized me by smell. I don't know about you, but observation gives us a clear indication that this is true. Can't you see how convinced people are that the eyes are a sense organ because science says it's been settled? You don't think this influences people to poke jabs at this author? Of course it does. If you are sincerely interested, then read Chapter Two. It's spelled out for you. If you're not interested, please don't keep asking me for evidence. Thanking you in advance.

Adobe Acrobat

403 Forbidden
Blah blah blah.

As noted, we’ve already given you links to science studies showing that dogs can recognize their human partners from photos and videos alone, by sight alone, and more recently, studies showing dogs can converse with us using soundboards and understand what we and they are saying.
I saw the flawed experiment with levers. I have never seen a photo or video alone that indicated dogs can recognize their masters. None. Send them to me if you can find them. Where did soundboards enter into this? We are talking about sight, not sound. Why are you conflating the two?

I already did, years ago, and I’m not going to do it again. Do your own research. The soundboard links is higher in this thread. Do you not even read?
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  #52578  
Old 09-12-2024, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

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So you have no evidence.
The evidence is obvious but you don’t want to accept it. Show me a counter example that proves him wrong. You haven’t done that because you can’t. The burden of proof is on him and he described very carefully why dogs cannot recognize through sight and why humans can. You don’t seem interested as to why he used dogs are incapable of sight recognition without other cues such as gait. You didn’t read anything so there’s no point if all you keep saying is he has no evidence. How do astronauts learn about space? Through their powerful telescopes and observation.
You just admitted in your post above this one that there was no evidence. You need to present actual evidence or stop saying there is evidence. Otherwise you are lying.

I did read every use of the word dog in what you linked and saw no evidence. You can tell me what page/paragraph it is presented on if you still want to claim it is there.
I don't believe you read the chapter. You expect a certain kind of evidence, which already proves to me that you were not open to his observations. Show me a dog that can recognize his master from a picture. He should be able to if the light is carrying the image to his eye. Show me that a dog can recognize his master from a computer screen. The light should easily reach his eye in order for recognition to occur. Why then can't he? Dogs can identify certain objects because they have formed a relationship between the object/behavior and the sound or command, but when recognition becomes more difficult, such as identifying facial characteristics, they don't have the ability to distinguish between one face and another. This could easily be demonstrated using an experiment. Line up ten people who have a similar shape. Then without the ability to get a whiff of his master (which would be a giveaway and ruin the experiment), see what happens. If the light from his master in a lineup is traveling to his eye, he should immediately give some indication that recognition has taken place whether it's turning toward his master, running up to him without his sense of smell kicking in, or some other indication. But this never happens. Dogs need their sense of smell or sound (to a lesser degree) as confirmation. Even my own dog would slowly come up to me not knowing if it was actually me when I walked in the house until he recognized me by smell. I don't know about you, but observation gives us a clear indication that this is true. Can't you see how convinced people are that the eyes are a sense organ because science says it's been settled? You don't think this influences people to poke jabs at this author? Of course it does. If you are sincerely interested, then read Chapter Two. It's spelled out for you. If you're not interested, please don't keep asking me for evidence. Thanking you in advance.

Adobe Acrobat

403 Forbidden
Blah blah blah.

As noted, we’ve already given you links to science studies showing that dogs can recognize their human partners from photos and videos alone, by sight alone, and more recently, studies showing dogs can converse with us using soundboards and understand what we and they are saying.
I saw the flawed experiment with levers. I have never seen a photo or video alone that indicated dogs can recognize their masters. None. Send them to me if you can find them. Where did soundboards enter into this? We are talking about sight, not sound. Why are you conflating the two?

I already did, years ago, and I’m not going to do it again. Do your own research. The soundboard links is higher in this thread. Do you not even read?
Why the snarkiness? Are you going to start that all over again? I've looked and have found nothing that show dogs recognize their masters from a computer screen or a picture without the use of sound or movement (gait), even with AI. Dogs can be conditioned to give certain responses (like the lever example), but this does not prove the claim that dogs can recognize by sight due to light waves traveling to their eyes and brain. They would recognize their master immediately if this were true, but this doesn't happen. You will continue to disregard his very astute observation probably because of cognitive/dissonance. You can't handle it. Anyway, if you are so sure he's wrong, why are you wasting your time here?
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  #52579  
Old 09-12-2024, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

David, you wrote this: As noted, we’ve already given you links to science studies showing that dogs can recognize their human partners from photos and videos alone, by sight alone, and more recently, studies showing dogs can converse with us using soundboards and understand what we and they are saying.

Peacegirl: What does this have to do with sight? You are doing this because you have nothing else.

MSN.
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which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
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  #52580  
Old 09-12-2024, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

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David, you wrote this: As noted, we’ve already given you links to science studies showing that dogs can recognize their human partners from photos and videos alone, by sight alone, and more recently, studies showing dogs can converse with us using soundboards and understand what we and they are saying.

Peacegirl: What does this have to do with sight? You are doing this because you have nothing else.

MSN.
Peacegirl, nobody here is going down the rabbit hole with you again. We are here purely for this lulz.
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  #52581  
Old 09-12-2024, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

Why don’t you try your hand at the revived iidb? Maybe you’ll have better luck this time. :yup: They have pretty brisk participation. .
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  #52582  
Old 09-12-2024, 09:55 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

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Why don’t you try your hand at the revived iidb? Maybe you’ll have better luck this time. :yup: They have pretty brisk participation. .
Speak for yourself David. You just can't understand purposely or not that this is not compatibilist free will. I explained it to you, but you ignore me. You cannot bring yourself to agree with anything because you've committed yourself to disagree at all costs. I don't like these forums because of the arrogance, and I won't spend much time at any. I came back here because I happened to find another video where a dog smelled his owner in a store after months of not seeing her and started wagging his tail with such excitement. There are no videos like this where sight is concerned. There are videos where they condition dogs to do certain things for a treat. This is not the same thing!!! :doh:
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  #52583  
Old 09-12-2024, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

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Why don’t you try your hand at the revived iidb? Maybe you’ll have better luck this time. :yup: They have pretty brisk participation. .
Thanks for refreshing my memory. I just went there. I must have been deleted when they changed names, so it's starting over again. I may join just to fill in the time while I'm trying to market. I have to reach people who are familiar with the free will/determinism debate otherwise it will be a waste of time.
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"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
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  #52584  
Old 09-12-2024, 10:06 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

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Why don’t you try your hand at the revived iidb? Maybe you’ll have better luck this time. :yup: They have pretty brisk participation. .
What do you mean "revived?"
It was gone for a long time, then it came back under new management. Try it! :yup: You might like it. Lots of people are posting there, most of whom have never heard of the book.
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  #52585  
Old 09-12-2024, 10:51 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

Gosh, maybe they also need to hear from me, as I am the True Steward of the Authentic Text? So they can do their own research - free of charge, of course - and not waste money on some hack hawking a Corrupted Text for lucre.
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  #52586  
Old 09-12-2024, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

Yes, peacegirl, I strongly suggest you start a new Revolution in Thought thread at iidb. :yup:
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  #52587  
Old 09-13-2024, 02:37 AM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

If that happens someone must link me to it.
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  #52588  
Old 09-13-2024, 03:19 AM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

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Try it! :yup:
By all means! Surely it would go much differently than the last time.
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  #52589  
Old 09-13-2024, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

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Why don’t you try your hand at the revived iidb? Maybe you’ll have better luck this time. :yup: They have pretty brisk participation. .
What do you mean "revived?"
It was gone for a long time, then it came back under new management. Try it! :yup: You might like it. Lots of people are posting there, most of whom have never heard of the book.
Thanks David. I just joined but I'm hesitant to open this can of worms again, although I feel compelled to do whatever I can to bring this discovery to light. Before my time is up on this earth, I will keep trying. I just hope there is decent moderation there because I will not tolerate the bad-mouthing that I experienced here.
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  #52590  
Old 09-13-2024, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

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Why don’t you try your hand at the revived iidb? Maybe you’ll have better luck this time. :yup: They have pretty brisk participation. .
What do you mean "revived?"
It was gone for a long time, then it came back under new management. Try it! :yup: You might like it. Lots of people are posting there, most of whom have never heard of the book.
Thanks David. I just joined but I'm hesitant to open this can of worms again, although I feel compelled to do whatever I can to bring this discovery to light. Before my time is up on this earth, I will keep trying. I just hope there is decent moderation there because I will not tolerate the bad-mouthing that I experienced here.
Yes, it is moderated, no insults or ad homs, no name-calling, etc, so you should do just fine, and it’s under new management. Go for it! :yup:
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Old 09-13-2024, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

Just a word to the wise, peacegirl, iidb puts the first few posts or so of a new member into a moderation queue (see? moderation!) to evaluate whether the new poster is a troll or maybe batshit insane. So, take it easy at first, maybe just write a bland post introducing yourself and how happy you are to be there. Stuff like that. :yup:
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  #52592  
Old 09-13-2024, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

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BTW, I am the true steward of this work.
That is incorrect.

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So they can do their own research - free of charge, of course - and not waste money on some hack hawking a Corrupted Text for lucre.
As always, true stewardship is a labor of love!
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  #52593  
Old 09-13-2024, 05:49 PM
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Just a word to the wise, peacegirl, iidb puts the first few posts or so of a new member into a moderation queue (see? moderation!) to evaluate whether the new poster is a troll or maybe batshit insane. So, take it easy at first, maybe just write a bland post introducing yourself and how happy you are to be there. Stuff like that. :yup:
I really do appreciate the tip! It's all about first impressions, I suppose. The thing is, I know broaching these subjects (determinism, the eyes, and death) are going to bring up a lot of resistance, which is okay, as long as the conversation stays productive and there are no attacks. I also want to give some credit to this place. Maturin taught me about vetting my sources which has gone a long way to my being a legitimate source of information. In the end, I overcame the insults, the lulz, the bad-mouthing, the false accusations, the outright lies, the jokes at my expense, the ad hominems, the exploitation, etc. Chuck came into this thread like a bull on steroids. He tried to ruin it for me altogether, but he didn't. Thanks to all the narcissists here for giving me a thick skin. For this I am forever grateful! :prayer:
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Last edited by peacegirl; 09-13-2024 at 06:08 PM.
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  #52594  
Old 09-13-2024, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

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Just a word to the wise, peacegirl, iidb puts the first few posts or so of a new member into a moderation queue (see? moderation!) to evaluate whether the new poster is a troll or maybe batshit insane. So, take it easy at first, maybe just write a bland post introducing yourself and how happy you are to be there. Stuff like that. :yup:
I really do appreciate the tip! It's all about first impressions, I suppose. The thing is, I know broaching these subjects (determinism, the eyes, and death) are going to bring up a lot of resistance, which is okay, as long as the conversation stays productive and there are no attacks. I also want to give some credit to this place. Maturin taught me about vetting my sources which has gone a long way to my being a legitimate source of information. In the end, I overcame the insults, the lulz, the bad-mouthing, the false accusations, the outright lies, the jokes at my expense, the ad hominems, the exploitation, etc. Chuck came into this thread like a bull on steroids. He tried to ruin it for me altogether, but he didn't. Thanks to all the narcissists here for giving me a thick skin. For this I am forever grateful! :prayer:
On behalf of all the narcissists here, particularly ChuckF, the liar in wolf’s clothing, bull on steroids, and True Steward of the Authentic Text, you are welcome. :yup:

I’d suggesting starting slowly, with a thread such as “A new look at determinism and free will,” and avoid, at least in the first few posts, all the stuff about a revolution in thought that will mean the end of all evil.
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  #52595  
Old 09-13-2024, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

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Maturin taught me about vetting my sources which has gone a long way to my being a legitimate source of information.
To your credit, you learned that lesson very well, as evidenced by the quality of the sources cited in that vaccines thread. Your persistence is remarkable, peacegirl; I don't think anyone here would deny that.

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bull on steroids
If that had been something like "bull in a China pudding steroid shop," a custom user title change might have been in order. As it is, though, "liar in wolf's clothing" is still better.
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  #52596  
Old 09-13-2024, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

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Originally Posted by davidm View Post
Just a word to the wise, peacegirl, iidb puts the first few posts or so of a new member into a moderation queue (see? moderation!) to evaluate whether the new poster is a troll or maybe batshit insane. So, take it easy at first, maybe just write a bland post introducing yourself and how happy you are to be there. Stuff like that. :yup:
I really do appreciate the tip! It's all about first impressions, I suppose. The thing is, I know broaching these subjects (determinism, the eyes, and death) are going to bring up a lot of resistance, which is okay, as long as the conversation stays productive and there are no attacks. I also want to give some credit to this place. Maturin taught me about vetting my sources which has gone a long way to my being a legitimate source of information. In the end, I overcame the insults, the lulz, the bad-mouthing, the false accusations, the outright lies, the jokes at my expense, the ad hominems, the exploitation, etc. Chuck came into this thread like a bull on steroids. He tried to ruin it for me altogether, but he didn't. Thanks to all the narcissists here for giving me a thick skin. For this I am forever grateful! :prayer:
On behalf of all the narcissists here, particularly ChuckF, the liar in wolf’s clothing, bull on steroids, and True Steward of the Authentic Text, you are welcome. :yup:

I’d suggesting starting slowly, with a thread such as “A new look at determinism and free will,” and avoid, at least in the first few posts, all the stuff about a revolution in thought that will mean the end of all evil.
How about this? Revolution in Thought -- A New Look at determinism and free will.
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https://www.declineandfallofallevil....3-CHAPTERS.pdf

https://www.declineandfallofallevil.com/ebook/


"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
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  #52597  
Old 09-13-2024, 07:21 PM
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davidm davidm is offline
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidm View Post
Just a word to the wise, peacegirl, iidb puts the first few posts or so of a new member into a moderation queue (see? moderation!) to evaluate whether the new poster is a troll or maybe batshit insane. So, take it easy at first, maybe just write a bland post introducing yourself and how happy you are to be there. Stuff like that. :yup:
I really do appreciate the tip! It's all about first impressions, I suppose. The thing is, I know broaching these subjects (determinism, the eyes, and death) are going to bring up a lot of resistance, which is okay, as long as the conversation stays productive and there are no attacks. I also want to give some credit to this place. Maturin taught me about vetting my sources which has gone a long way to my being a legitimate source of information. In the end, I overcame the insults, the lulz, the bad-mouthing, the false accusations, the outright lies, the jokes at my expense, the ad hominems, the exploitation, etc. Chuck came into this thread like a bull on steroids. He tried to ruin it for me altogether, but he didn't. Thanks to all the narcissists here for giving me a thick skin. For this I am forever grateful! :prayer:
On behalf of all the narcissists here, particularly ChuckF, the liar in wolf’s clothing, bull on steroids, and True Steward of the Authentic Text, you are welcome. :yup:

I’d suggesting starting slowly, with a thread such as “A new look at determinism and free will,” and avoid, at least in the first few posts, all the stuff about a revolution in thought that will mean the end of all evil.
How about this? Revolution in Thought -- A New Look at determinism and free will.
That sounds fine. Just don’t overpromise in the first post — avoid in the first post talk about ending all evil, etc. It will immediately set everyone on edge. Ease into it slowly.
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  #52598  
Old 09-13-2024, 07:23 PM
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davidm davidm is offline
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

I’d also suggest before starting the thread, make a nice intro post. I think they have an “introduce yourself” thread or somr such in the Lounge.
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  #52599  
Old 09-13-2024, 07:25 PM
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davidm davidm is offline
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

It’s right here.
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  #52600  
Old 09-13-2024, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidm View Post
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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
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Originally Posted by davidm View Post
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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
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Originally Posted by davidm View Post
Just a word to the wise, peacegirl, iidb puts the first few posts or so of a new member into a moderation queue (see? moderation!) to evaluate whether the new poster is a troll or maybe batshit insane. So, take it easy at first, maybe just write a bland post introducing yourself and how happy you are to be there. Stuff like that. :yup:
I really do appreciate the tip! It's all about first impressions, I suppose. The thing is, I know broaching these subjects (determinism, the eyes, and death) are going to bring up a lot of resistance, which is okay, as long as the conversation stays productive and there are no attacks. I also want to give some credit to this place. Maturin taught me about vetting my sources which has gone a long way to my being a legitimate source of information. In the end, I overcame the insults, the lulz, the bad-mouthing, the false accusations, the outright lies, the jokes at my expense, the ad hominems, the exploitation, etc. Chuck came into this thread like a bull on steroids. He tried to ruin it for me altogether, but he didn't. Thanks to all the narcissists here for giving me a thick skin. For this I am forever grateful! :prayer:
On behalf of all the narcissists here, particularly ChuckF, the liar in wolf’s clothing, bull on steroids, and True Steward of the Authentic Text, you are welcome. :yup:

I’d suggesting starting slowly, with a thread such as “A new look at determinism and free will,” and avoid, at least in the first few posts, all the stuff about a revolution in thought that will mean the end of all evil.
How about this? Revolution in Thought -- A New Look at determinism and free will.
That sounds fine. Just don’t overpromise in the first post — avoid in the first post talk about ending all evil, etc. It will immediately set everyone on edge. Ease into it slowly.
Thanks for your input! Eventually though I'm going to have to mention his claims because that's why I signed up.
__________________
https://www.declineandfallofallevil....3-CHAPTERS.pdf

https://www.declineandfallofallevil.com/ebook/


"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
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