A revolution in thought

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Mike Adams happily discussed how to spot a sociopath, so he must not hate psychiatry too awful much.

How to spot a sociopath - 10 red flags that could save you from being swept under the influence of a charismatic nut job

I like this one, it reminds me of you peacegirl

You need to read this part it sounds like Geier

Geier was not a sociopath. He did not attack the messenger. Why did you bring this article up, as if it applies to what we were discussing. Geier offered his findings, and his therapy helped some children in the end, just like Burzynsky saved children who were given a death sentence by the medical community. This is documented.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I answered you. We were talking about psychotropic drugs and psychiatry.

We were? When?

As far as I can tell you introduced it completely out of the blue with this post

Originally Posted by peacegirl

If anyone is interested in the history of psychotropic drugs, you may want to watch this.

Abuse In Psychiatry: The Truth - YouTube

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

We were? When?

As far as I can tell you introduced it completely out of the blue with this post

I did post this out of the blue when the discussion of the book was going nowhere. I didn't know I would get into a full discussion. I happened to find the video online and thought it was interesting so I posted it. Then we got back into talking about vaccines. Whatever, it doesn't matter to me how it was started. I'm just glad I'm not discussing the book anymore.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

In the case of the little boy who was treated with Lupron, he had a beard. Isn't that indicative of too much testosterone?

So now we can add "Practicing Medicine Without a License" to your list of Crimes against Humanity. And you are making a diagnosis without even examining the boy in question. Shame on you.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Mike Adams happily discussed how to spot a sociopath, so he must not hate psychiatry too awful much.

How to spot a sociopath - 10 red flags that could save you from being swept under the influence of a charismatic nut job

How many of those could be applied to Mike Adams?

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Natural is best.

Natural is when your get sick, you die. Yup natural is best.

I think I'll stick with all that unnatural medicine and live to play with my grandchildren. I'm glad my son didn't refuse treatment.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

What criteria does Lupron meet that vaccines don't?

Let's see. Lupron contains all kind of nasty chemicals but it's OK because it is administered for a condition it doesn't treat. Vaccines contain all kind of nasty chemicals and they are not OK because vaccines prevent deadly diseases. Are you clear on that now?

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Scientologists did not put this video together Stephen.

Sure they did.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Why don't you look and see for yourself.

Maybe I will. Probably not, but maybe.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I don't agree with everything on the whale website.

That's good, but you should check out the Holocaust denial and related stuff closely. It's pretty convincing.

show spoiler

Originally Posted by peacegirl

And btw, this is not a Scientology front group's anti-psych video.

That's incorrect as a simple matter of fact. CCHR is in fact a Scientology front. That's well known, and neither CCHR nor the Church of Scientology even bother trying to hide it anymore. CCHR produced the video, which is anti-psychiatry. Thus, it is indeed a Scientology front group's anti-psych video.

Now please don't get me wrong; I'm no psychiatry fanboy. Declaring aberrant behavior pathological and in need of fixing based on little more than its aberrancy always struck me as more than a little ghastly. However, my partial affinity for the message doesn't make the video any less a Scientology product.

BTW, I'll give you three guesses as to what this outfit's preferred alternative to psychiatric treatment is. I'll bet you only need one guess.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Why are you jumping to the conclusion that it was sponsored by Scientology when you really don't know?

But I do really know. The conclusion is correct, spot-on even.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

This book is all about the boy who was helped by Dr. Geier.

Sacred Spark: Lisa K. Sykes, M. D. Mark R. Geier, David A. Geier: 9780971780644: Amazon.com: Books

Go to Amazon and look at this book. It was an account given by the mother about her child's recovery. The next thing you're going to say is how do I know the mother isn't lying, or being paid off by Geier. I know you by now.

Lisa Sykes is a colleague of the Geiers, not just the mother of a patient. She publicly makes a small salary from their self funded non-profit

And, they are shady, peacegirl. Look at their non-profits income and spending

In 2010 and 2011, the officers are:

Mark Geier (Treasurer)
David Geier (VP)
Lisa Sykes (President)
Paul King (Secretary)

CoMeD brought in the following sums:
2009: $12,693
2010: $61,062
2011: $121,217


Where does CoMeD get their money? In 2009 they list one contributer (JB and Lisa Handley, of Generation Rescue) with a $5,000 donation. They don’t list contributers in 2010, but in 2011 the contributers are:

ASD Centers, LLC: $103,915
James and Wendy Abrams: $20,000
Institute of Chronic Illness: $1,975
MEDCON: $5,083.

ASD Centers, Institute for Chronic Illness and MEDCON are all run by the Geiers. So, CoMeD is run by and mostly funded by the Geiers.

Where do they spend their money? Let’s focus on 2011 as it is the largest budget:

$44.6k on travel
$34.8k was spent on legal fees.
$24k on compensation of the officers.
$17k on printing and publications.
$15.3k on other professional services

So, CoMeD apparently spends its money on flying the Geiers around and paying attorneys. Plus paying the Geiers small salary. But they are the primary donors so CoMeD is paying the Geiers their own money. Plus printing and publications.

Bottom line: if you want to pay the Geiers to travel the world, pay attorneys and pay themselves, this could be the charitable contribution for you. Tax forms for CoMeD (a Geier nonprofit) | Left Brain Right Brain

Originally Posted by peacegirl

That question shows me, once again, that you did not understand his reasoning which had everything to do with mercury poisoning (i.e., ethylmercury in vaccines) and why Lupron worked as a last resort for young boys who were already severely damaged.

It seems he's distancing himself from the mercury thing. A recent paper (written with Lisa Sykes) doesn't mention mercury AT ALL except in a citation to a previous paper

An evaluation of the role and trea... [Acta Neurobiol Exp (Wars). 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

More importantly, he funded his own paper, then said this in the CoI disclosure:

Funding
The study was financial supported by the non-
profit Institute of Chronic Illnesses, Inc. and by the
non-profit CoMeD, Inc. None of the organizations pro -
viding financial support for our study had any influ -
ence on data analyses or conclusions.
Potential conflict of interest statement
David Geier and Mark Geier have a patent pending
for the treatment of autism spectrum disorders.

How could he not influence his own data analysis LOL!

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by thedoc

Natural is when your get sick, you die. Yup natural is best.

I think I'll stick with all that unnatural medicine and live to play with my grandchildren. I'm glad my son didn't refuse treatment.

I'm not saying there is no place for medicine, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. To achieve health you can't just pop a pill. You need to live a healthy lifestyle. I don't see anything wrong with Mike Adams, Mercola and others promoting healthy foods and a clean environment.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by thedoc

Let's see. Lupron contains all kind of nasty chemicals but it's OK because it is administered for a condition it doesn't treat. Vaccines contain all kind of nasty chemicals and they are not OK because vaccines prevent deadly diseases. Are you clear on that now?

You are getting very feisty. Lupron indirectly helped a child who was failing due to mercury poisoning FROM VACCINES. Yes, vaccines have all kinds of nasty chemicals in them that have caused unexpected side effects. Why are you being sarcastic when this is such a serious issue? I am not against anyone being helped by a vaccine that doesn't cause an insult to an infant's body, but they don't know the extent of damage that may be the result of this ever growing combination of toxins. So in getting all these vaccines, we could be replacing one illness for a chronic hard to treat auto-immune type [in those who are susceptible]. You may say that there is no proof that vaccines are the cause, but wouldn't you want to know, and if there is the possibility wouldn't you want to take precautions against this risk until they know for sure, which they have not been able to claim with absolute certainty? You say that without vaccines the harm that could come to children getting the disease would be worse, but does anyone really know what diseases will come back as predicted? Small pockets where children got the measles is not the beginning of a pandemic, and there's no proof that it's because most children have been vaccinated. As we've seen, many children that have been vaccinated still get these illnesses and even more so in some cases.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I am not against anyone being helped by a vaccine that doesn't cause an insult to an infant's body, but they don't even know the extent of damage that may be the result of vaccines.

Do you know the extent of damage that may be the result of Lupron?

Originally Posted by peacegirl

So we replace one illness for another?

Like you replace one injection for another?

What criteria does Lupron meet that vaccines don't?

[LadyShea]

Lupron indirectly helped a child who was failing due to mercury poisoning FROM VACCINES

And was there a blood test or any evidence of mercury poisoning?

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

Sure they did.

Maybe I will. Probably not, but maybe.

I'll have to research this, but nevertheless, I cannot judge the articles that are written that have merit just because their ideas on other topics may be delusional.

That's incorrect as a simple matter of fact. CCHR is in fact a Scientology front. That's well known, and neither CCHR nor the Church of Scientology even bother trying to hide it anymore. CCHR produced the video, which is anti-psychiatry. Thus, it is indeed a Scientology front group's anti-psych video.

Now please don't get me wrong; I'm no psychiatry fanboy. Declaring aberrant behavior pathological and in need of fixing based on little more than its aberrancy always struck me as more than a little ghastly.

What is aberrant behavior anyway? Any behavior can be judged aberrant according to their playbook, which gives them a huge market share because now anyone can be labeled abnormal.

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

However, my partial affinity for the message doesn't make the video any less a Scientology product.

Fair enough, but I am only using this well documented video to learn about the truth of how psychiatry became a respected profession and the lies regarding the safety and efficacy of their drugs. I am not here to promote Scientology. So what you're saying is anyone who is against psychiatry which has become drug oriented (they use to use talk therapy but now it's all about chemical imbalances that have to be treated with drugs) is automatically a Scientology advocate? This really isn't fair.

Originally Posted by "BTW, I'll give you three guesses as to what this outfit's preferred alternative to psychiatric treatment is. I'll bet you only need one guess.[/quote

Healthy food and exercise. Does this mean that I'm a scientologist, or Mike Adams is, or anybody who is into a healthy environment is? No it does not.

But I do really know. The conclusion is correct, spot-on even.

I'll give you that, but to dismiss this documentary just because it was sponsored by this group is to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

And was there a blood test or any evidence of mercury poisoning?

Mercury poisoning is not that easy to prove. The effects of mercury poisoning are subtle. Why do you think the vaccine industry has gotten away with it for so long? The study that has shown an association between ethylmercury with glutathione depletion is a major finding because now they have proof that thimerosal may be responsible for these developmental disorders that parents have been saying all along.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Mercury poisoning is not that easy to prove...

You're the one who said the child was failing due to mercury poisoning. Why did you make a claim you have absolutely no evidence for?

[LadyShea]

I am not here to promote Scientology. So what you're saying is anyone who is against psychiatry which has become drug oriented (they use to use talk therapy but now it's all about chemical imbalances that have to be treated with drugs) is automatically a Scientology advocate?

There are plenty of non-Scientology sources of information about the problems within psychiatry. Don't utilize their sources and you won't be considered an advocate for Scientology.

ETA: As gains are made in neuroscience, you will start seeing changes in psychiatry. It was all we had for a long while, though. Psychiatry has improved some in the last 100 years, but really we need that knowledge about the brain to make a quantum leap.

Changing brains: why neuroscience is ending the Prozac era

The starkest indication that drugs are increasingly being thought of as yesterday's cutting-edge comes from the little mentioned fact that almost all the major drug companies have closed or curtailed their drug discovery programmes for mental and neurological disorders. The realisation that there has been little in the way of genuine innovation since the major classes of psychiatric drugs were discovered in the 1950s has made future sales look bleak. New drugs have regularly appeared since then, often with fewer side effects, but most are little better in terms of effectiveness.

Big money has already been committed. The Obama White House has promised $3bn to develop technology to help identify brain circuits, while the National Institute of Mental Health has promised to move its seven-figure funding away from research into conditions such as schizophrenia and depression towards a system that looks at how brain networks contribute to difficulties that are shared across diagnoses. This project, given the unspectacular name Research Domain Criteria or the RDoC Project, is being cited as an eventual replacement for the diagnostic system used by current-day psychiatrists.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I'm not saying there is no place for medicine, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. To achieve health you can't just pop a pill. You need to live a healthy lifestyle. I don't see anything wrong with Mike Adams, Mercola and others promoting healthy foods and a clean environment.

This can be taken to the extreme. If a person is not exposed to any pathogens, or very few, they will not develop any immunity.

During my last visit to the hospital (about a week) everyone was using the 'hand sanitizer' and I was laughing at them. A nurse would come in with her cart and computer for a check, sanitize her hands and start typing. At no point did I see anyone sanitize the keyboard, so every time they touched it, all the germs that they just cleaned off their hands were put right back on.

Some conditions are not preventable, my heart condition is the result of some condition in my past that left a lot of scar tissue, but was not the result of anything that I did or did not do.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Mercury poisoning is not that easy to prove. The effects of mercury poisoning are subtle.

Mercury poisoning must be relatively easy to detect with the proper test. My dentist and his staff are regularly tested for too much mercury in their system.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

The effects of mercury poisoning are subtle.

Actually mercury poisoning has been well documented and described for centuries, 'Mad as a Hatter', has been part of the English language for a very long time.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Lisa Sykes is a colleague of the Geiers, not just the mother of a patient. She publicly makes a small salary from their self funded non-profit

And, they are shady, peacegirl. Look at their non-profits income and spending

It seems he's distancing himself from the mercury thing. A recent paper (written with Lisa Sykes) doesn't mention mercury AT ALL except in a citation to a previous paper

An evaluation of the role and trea... [Acta Neurobiol Exp (Wars). 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

More importantly, he funded his own paper, then said this in the CoI disclosure:

How could he not influence his own data analysis LOL!

You can use any facts you want to try and prove that the Geiers were out for money. I think this has become a smear campaign, and you have bought into it. He gave money to his own organization, so money that was given back to him was his. As far as Lisa Sykes being his colleague and therefore in collusion to pull the wool over the public, I really doubt that. You are so suspicious of everyone that no one is safe from your condemning eyes.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by thedoc

Actually mercury poisoning has been well documented and described for centuries, 'Mad as a Hatter', has been part of the English language for a very long time.

We're talking about ethylmercury, not methlmercury. They are doing everything they can to show that it is not poisonous in the doses given.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by thedoc

This can be taken to the extreme. If a person is not exposed to any pathogens, or very few, they will not develop any immunity.

During my last visit to the hospital (about a week) everyone was using the 'hand sanitizer' and I was laughing at them. A nurse would come in with her cart and computer for a check, sanitize her hands and start typing. At no point did I see anyone sanitize the keyboard, so every time they touched it, all the germs that they just cleaned off their hands were put right back on.

Some conditions are not preventable, my heart condition is the result of some condition in my past that left a lot of scar tissue, but was not the result of anything that I did or did not do.

And in your case medicine may be a lifesaver. I'm not saying that you should not take medicine if it's really necessary.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

There are plenty of non-Scientology sources of information about the problems within psychiatry. Don't utilize their sources and you won't be considered an advocate for Scientology.

I will not do that, so people can think what they want. I have not seen any other documentary that covered this much ground in two hours. Here's one more.

The Untold Story of Psychotropic Drugging | Watch Free Documentary Online

Originally Posted by LadyShea

ETA: As gains are made in neuroscience, you will start seeing changes in psychiatry. It was all we had for a long while, though. Psychiatry has improved some in the last 100 years, but really we need that knowledge about the brain to make a quantum leap.

Changing brains: why neuroscience is ending the Prozac era

I wish them luck trying to find a one size fits all drug [based on a system that looks at how brain networks contribute to difficulties that are shared across diagnoses]. It follows that they are looking for new ways to keep the money rolling in because their antiquated system of shock treatments and drugs have failed once again. Their hype is so convincing that it's easy to be a believer, but no drug will ever be able to solve all of the problems people have, especially when there is no lab finding that can identify what the problem is, let alone what the solution is.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

You're the one who said the child was failing due to mercury poisoning. Why did you make a claim you have absolutely no evidence for?

There is evidence, but it is not obvious like breaking a leg where you know an immediate cause and effect. The evidence believed to be responsible takes a subtle form, which is harder to prove but just as damaging if not more so.