A revolution in thought

[davidm]

Here is an abstract example for peacegirl:

A new discovery about man’s nature resolves the centuries-old debate over free will and determinism. The author shows that we lack free will, but not owing to cause-and-effect determinism. Only the present exists, consistent with Buddhist teaching, so the past cannot affect it. Rather, we lack free will because of our innate nature — we are always compelled by our very nature to move in the direction of greater satisfaction. The corollary of this, however, is that nothing on earth can make us do, what we do not wish to do. Once this is understood, there follows a discovery about human relations that can eliminate strife, conflict, and evil.

[peacegirl]

[quote=davidm;1404303]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Sure, write whatever you want, of course. I’ll even try to help you out, just not on the light and sight stuff. I would avoid that entirely if I were you, at least in the beginning. Focus on the determinism/free will thing.

I can try, but it's in Chapter Two of The Secret, which can't be helped. You would like this book because of the humor.

[davidm]

[quote=peacegirl;1404307]

Originally Posted by davidm

I can try, but it's in Chapter Two of The Secret, which can't be helped. You would like this book because of the humor.

I’ve read the book, peacegirl, and there are very funny bits in it, especially the stuff you took out but that ChuckF recovered. In any case, I suggest you just start the thread and any response I make will be to try to help you along if possible.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by davidm

Here is an abstract example for peacegirl:

A new discovery about man’s nature resolves the centuries-old debate over free will and determinism. The author shows that we lack free will, but not owing to cause-and-effect determinism. Only the present exists, consistent with Buddhist teaching, so the past cannot affect it.

Our past does affect what we choose in the direction of greater satisfaction, but the difference between the present definition of determinism (cause/effect) and the definition Lessans gives, which IS correct is that WE must give our consent. We can't be forced by determinism (or any event external to us) to do what we choose not to do or don't agree to. That is why the corollary that nothing in this world can make us do anything against our will IS SO IMPORTANT as people will understand as they proceed. Do you see why I have to be careful not to confuse people?

Originally Posted by davidm

Rather, we lack free will because of our innate nature — we are always compelled by our very nature to move in the direction of greater satisfaction. The corollary of this, however, is that nothing on earth can make us do, what we do not wish to do. Once this is understood, there follows a discovery about human relations that can eliminate strife, conflict, and evil.

That is true, but these two corollaries will make no sense without the environmental factors explained that lead up to the two-sided equation (i.e., the discovery itself), which you are indirectly referring to. Thanks for trying to help me. I think you're being sincere.

[peacegirl]

[quote=davidm;1404308]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I’ve read the book, peacegirl, and there are very funny bits in it, especially the stuff you took out but that ChuckF recovered. In any case, I suggest you just start the thread and any response I make will be to try to help you along if possible.

Where did you get the book? I'm curious. It wasn't being sold so where did you read it? Chuck's cut and paste? You call that reading the book? What did Chuck recover that I didn't include? I did not take his humor out of HIS books. I compiled 6 of his books after he passed away which was entitled Decline and Fall of All Evil, not The Secret. After you respond to this post, I'll start a thread on iidb if not today, then hopefully tomorrow.

Adobe Acrobat

[peacegirl]

never mind

[davidm]

peacegirl, at one point you posted the whole book online.

[davidm]

delete duplicate. Not sure why it posted three times.

[davidm]

delete duplicate

[davidm]

Oh, I see. I added something. A different post.

Either you posted it all online, or you posted the whole book as a PDF attachment in this thread.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by davidm

peacegirl, at one point you posted the whole book online.

Really? I wish you could find it. I could have easily posted it by mistake.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by davidm

peacegirl, at one point you posted the whole book online.

I never posted the whole book. I posted excerpts of my compilation but never posted 600 pages.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I never posted the whole book. I posted excerpts of my compilation but never posted 600 pages.

Yes, you did.

[ChuckF]

For what it's worth, the full audio recording of Lessans reading Beyond the Framework of Modern Thought (except for the parts that peacegirl corrupted) is apparently still freely available to anyone with an Internet connection, through peacegirl's website.

[davidm]

We’ll see how it goes.

Toning it down was a good idea, peacegirl

[peacegirl]

David, as you can see, I started a thread but there doesn't seem to be any interest, at least not yet. I'm not sure if there will be considering that this subject has been saturated by philosophers down through the ages and no solutions to this longstanding problem have been forthcoming. Maybe I'll give them the link to The Secret because it's Lessans' book and it has some humor. The problem is that Chapter Two: Words, Not Reality, may mess things up only because people will reject what they believe is 100% wrong since the science is settled. They will then contend he must be a crackpot. Do you see the problem I have?

[davidm]

Peacegirl, you just put the thing up. Relax and wait a bit. It already has 15 views.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by davidm

Peacegirl, you just put the thing up. Relax and wait a bit. It already has 15 views.

I wonder how long it takes for the moderators to approve a post. Also, is there a way to edit? It seems they don't give you much time, if any, to do this. I understand the importance of censoring any material that is offensive, even though I would have preferred a forum like ff, without the ad homs. Unfortunately, there's no going back.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I wonder how long it takes for the moderators to approve a post. Also, is there a way to edit? It seems they don't give you much time, if any, to do this. I understand the importance of censoring any material that is offensive, even though I would have preferred a forum like ff, without the ad homs. Unfortunately, there's no going back.

You posts are visible, they have been approved. You should still be able to edit them. You’ve had 23 views and eventually will get responses.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by davidm

You posts are visible, they have been approved. You should still be able to edit them. You’ve had 23 views and eventually will get responses.

The first post didn't allow me to edit, but the second did, so i guess it had to do with me being a new poster.

[peacegirl]

David, I just published a post and they have yet to approve it. It's not looking good. This book fits right into their discussions regarding Robert Sapolsky and others, but they may still disapprove it because of the word God or because they want a summary, or for whatever reason. I don't think a summary would do any good. I can see the writing on the wall. This is what I posted.

I hope I can get some interest, as the knowledge I am presenting is novel. It's important to mention that the author used the word God throughout his books but was clear that this word only meant the laws that govern our universe. If he was still living (he passed away in 1991), he may have changed how he expressed himself, but this does not change the value of his words. I want to reiterate that this is not a religious work. I know people's time is valuable and they don't want to read something they know nothing about. Maybe they will make an exception. This knowledge lies locked behind the door of determinism, but please don't jump to premature conclusions. The author was a philosopher but was forced to self-publish. He was not a part of a university and held no distinguishing titles. As a result, he was unable to reach those who could have been instrumental in passing along his work. His entire adult life was dedicated to sharing his findings in a way that others could comprehend. He wrote 6 books in all and thanks to technology, they have been reproduced online. The book I am sharing today is my compilation. Some people have said it's too longwinded. Maybe that's true, but it's important to remember that form is less important than what is being conveyed. Please keep this in mind if you decide to read it.

https://www.declineandfallofallevil....3-CHAPTERS.pdf

To tell you the truth David, it's better to know now rather than later that the skeptic forum is not for me. They may be doing me a favor by not publishing it. I'll have to find another home for this book. If you are around, I'll let you know. You tried to help me surprisingly, and I'm gratefull!

[davidm]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

David, I just published a post and they have yet to approve it. It's not looking good. This book fits right into their discussions regarding Robert Sapolsky and others, but they may still disapprove it because of the word God or because they want a summary, or for whatever reason. I don't think a summary would do any good. I can see the writing on the wall. This is what I posted.

I hope I can get some interest, as the knowledge I am presenting is novel. It's important to mention that the author used the word God throughout his books but was clear that this word only meant the laws that govern our universe. If he was still living (he passed away in 1991), he may have changed how he expressed himself, but this does not change the value of his words. I want to reiterate that this is not a religious work. I know people's time is valuable and they don't want to read something they know nothing about. Maybe they will make an exception. This knowledge lies locked behind the door of determinism, but please don't jump to premature conclusions. The author was a philosopher but was forced to self-publish. He was not a part of a university and held no distinguishing titles. As a result, he was unable to reach those who could have been instrumental in passing along his work. His entire adult life was dedicated to sharing his findings in a way that others could comprehend. He wrote 6 books in all and thanks to technology, they have been reproduced online. The book I am sharing today is my compilation. Some people have said it's too longwinded. Maybe that's true, but it's important to remember that form is less important than what is being conveyed. Please keep this in mind if you decide to read it.

https://www.declineandfallofallevil....3-CHAPTERS.pdf

To tell you the truth David, it's better to know now rather than later that the skeptic forum is not for me. They may be doing me a favor by not publishing it. I'll have to find another home for this book. If you are around, I'll let you know. You tried to help me surprisingly, and I'm gratefull!

Peacegirl, you’re freaking out over nothing. Begging people to respond is the surest way to make sure they don’t respond. Nobody knows you there, it’s Sunday and there are not that many people there, and most of those who are there right now are talking about politics and the presidential race. I’ll see if I can help you out with a post.

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by ChuckF

For what it's worth, the full audio recording of Lessans reading Beyond the Framework of Modern Thought (except for the parts that peacegirl corrupted) is apparently still freely available to anyone with an Internet connection, through peacegirl's website.

That there is something a pirate would write!

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by davidm

We’ll see how it goes.

There's a certain comfort in consistency. Copypasta. Oceans and oceans of delicious copypasta. More than two decades, zero lessons learned.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

There's a certain comfort in consistency. Copypasta. Oceans and oceans of delicious copypasta. More than two decades, zero lessons learned.

I’m trying to help her out a little there as Pood but no dice. She just can’t resist throwing up huge walls of copypasta that no one will read in lieu of a succinct description of the argument. As we long ago discovered, she can’t summarize the argument because she doesn’t understand it herself. I’ve been trying to nudge her to go step by step to see if she can finally do a summary, but it’s a lost cause. Maybe what she is doing is actually a demonstration of her own argument — she is “compelled of her own free will “ to throw up copypasta! Anyway …