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Old 04-20-2012, 07:28 PM
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Default A Quack in Time

5 Baffling Discoveries That Prove History Books Are Wrong | Cracked.com

This seems like a boatload of fail to me. What little I've researched on the topics isn't encouraging. Ok, I've known pretty much from the start to fact check anything controversial in a Cracked list, but this one really stands out.

None of this stuff proves anything, even in the loose sense of the word that is possible in history or archaeology. One article I turned up on the drugged up mummies mentions that the mummies themselves weren't made available to independent analysis. The Norse coin one, I didn't even need to look up. Trade isn't some new concept brought to the Americas by Europeans. The Zuni language entry even links to Wikipedia, whose article mentions not one thing about a Japanese connection but rather unsurprisingly refers to the language's relation to that of neighboring areas.

The only real question this piece of crap raised was whether the author is just desperate for list material, a paid troll or just that gullible.
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: A Quack in Time

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both languages use the verb as the last word of a sentence, a feature only 45 percent of languages share.
Um, 45% is pretty close to half. What's with the "only" like it's some really rare thing?
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: A Quack in Time

6 Insane Discoveries That Science Can't Explain | Cracked.com
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: A Quack in Time

I noticed that as well, but then got hung on the following sentence: "That may not seem like a lot, but considering the Zuni language is nothing like the languages of the people who surround it, it's a pretty odd connection." which is what led me to Wikipedia.
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:18 PM
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Default Re: A Quack in Time

I ran across that one a while back and did some checking. The spheres one seems to be mistaken in saying that the objects are actually well, spheres. Apparently they're just rounded, like um river rock.

The Voynich Manuscript is legit though. livius told us so.
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:24 PM
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Still need to read that article but yeah... SOV word order is not at all exceptional, in fact, it's actually the most common (45% - consider that there are six possible orders). And languages don't always strictly use one or the other, Old English extensively used both SOV and SVO order, and it was the loss of inflections and cases in party that led to word order becoming more rigid (and settling on SVO). Swedish and English share SVO while Dutch and German are SOV (despite English being more closely related to Dutch than Swedish) so it's not necessarily that crazy for closely related languages to differ on that count.
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:42 PM
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Default Re: A Quack in Time

Yeah I know the Voynich Manuscript...but "individual code only one person knew" seems plausible to me.
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Old 04-20-2012, 10:16 PM
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Default Re: A Quack in Time

Apparently the author who put forth the Zuni-Japanese hypothesis is not a linguist, so... yeah.

Linguistics is one of those areas where the layperson thinks they know a lot more about it than they actually do (after all, they can speak English and they even learned a foreign language!). If someone's putting forth a theory like that, I'm skeptical of it if they don't have much background because the methods that seem to make sense at first to use for historical linguistics don't actually hold up very well. Like picking out random words and finding similarities - if two languages have reasonably similar phonologies (and in this case, they both share the five vowel system [a e i o u], which is the most common vowel system) you'll find at least some words that match, or come close to matching.

What would be more convincing is if, for example, she could find some kind of consistent sound correspondence between the two languages. Looking at English and Swedish, you can find a strong correspondence between words spelled with sh in English and words spelled with sk in Swedish (if followed by a front vowel [i e y ö j] it's actually pronounced more like sh):

English Swedish
shall ska/skall
shoot skjuta
shit skit
shoe sko
-ship (suffix) -skip
sharp skarp

Or when you look at Germanic languages and Romance languages, there is a correspondence between [f] and [p], th and [t], and [h] and [k]:

Germanic Latin/Romance
father pater
mother mater
heart cor
hound canis
thou tu
foot ped
head <(Old English) heafod caput
horse currus (chariot)
throw terere

You can find patterns like that between most languages that are related - like Mandarin and Cantonese (Mandarin only allows nasal consonants at the end of syllables, while Cantonese allows a number of consonants - but one of the tones of Mandarin corresponds to syllables that end in consonants in Cantonese).

Also, given that Japanese has a fairly long written history, she would be able to look at Middle Japanese, which would be from the time period she was suggesting the Japanese settlers came to the Americas, and it's fairly well-attested, so there would be little reason to use modern Japanese words for her comparisons (sometimes words can sound superficially similar in the modern languages but are found to have very different origins).

One example where you might assume there's a relationship between admire and admiral - but admiral actually comes from Arabic amir, emir (like in the United Arab Emirates) and picked up a d due to spurious association with Latin).
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: A Quack in Time

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Originally Posted by Ymir's blood View Post
I ran across that one a while back and did some checking. The spheres one seems to be mistaken in saying that the objects are actually well, spheres. Apparently they're just rounded, like um river rock.

The Voynich Manuscript is legit though. livius told us so.
Just some quick checking on the other times at Wikipedia suggests that these things aren't problematic for science.

The Antikythera mechanism apparently wasn't alone. There are a number of contemporary accounts of similar devices built by the Greeks. As far as the article saying that the people of the time didn't understand the theories necessary to build such a device, well technology and science aren't a constant progression from primitive to advanced. The Ancient World was far more advanced than Dark Ages Europe. Whether entirely accurate or not, the vary term Dark Ages refers to the loss of knowledge and culture from the Ancient World.
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: A Quack in Time

Wikipedia also says the Baigong Pipes are naturally occurring and lists several similar places in the US.
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