Roundup round-up (and other pesticides)

[fragment]

Glyphosate came up in (I think) the isolation thread and I have a little experience and knowledge with herbicides, so I have thoughts. Not sure how to put it all together, but briefly:

A bit of skepticism about cancer claims is probably in order.
Monsanto is an evil shit of a company that has, among other things, murked up the science about glyphosate risks.
The practice of spraying crops before harvest to increase yields and decrease costs is a terrifying overuse of agrichemicals.
IARC including glyphosate on their list of probable carcinogens is a bit controversial among people who study this stuff.
By the way that same list includes red meat and shift work.
Also, IARC only identifies carcinogenic agents, importantly it doesn't identify levels of risk, safe exposure rates, etc.
That dude who won the lawsuit for his lymphoma (IIRC) reported finishing days of work covered in his spray mix and not using much in the way of PPE, one of the features of the lawsuit was that labelling didn't identify risks sufficiently. So even if his illness was caused by glyphosate (IMO a courtroom is not a good place to establish such a thing) it doesn't say much about the casual exposure rates other people may be exposed to. But yes, sounds like appallingly lax labelling and PPE requirements - get a better regulatory environment, America!
By the way, glyphosate gets a lot of hate, probably because it is so widely used and known, but did you know that there are much more worrying pesticides being used out there?
Glyphosate is too useful a tool to be outright banned, which is the route some places are taking. I see pesticides as kinda like medicines - don't use 'em when everything's fine but if things go wrong they're needed.

Thoughts and questions?

[SR71]

It is such a hard thing for an individual to have an informed opinion when it comes to figuring out how concerned one should be about various chemical contaminants. Most of us just won't have the relevant background. To an extent I consider the use of agricultural chemicals somewhat unavoidable, big ag is sort of a necessary part of sustaining big populations. It would be nice to know that at least every effort is made to limit risk by minimizing exposure to agrichemicals.

I would agree that my suspicion of glyphosate as a carcinogen is more a matter of public reputation than anything arrived at by any scientific avenue.

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by fragment

Monsanto is an evil shit of a company

Yes.

Originally Posted by fragment

Glyphosate is too useful a tool to be outright banned

Yes.

I guess the risks are of an order where more personal protection and limits to exposure for workers are needed. Just as we don't ban medical X-rays. And the discussion needs to be about forcing Monsanto to swallow their evil shit and stop suppressing objective information, rather than a binary Roundup good / Roundup bad .

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by fragment

IARC including glyphosate on their list of probable carcinogens is a bit controversial among people who study this stuff.
By the way that same list includes red meat and shift work.

And
High-temperature frying
Burning wood indoors
Drinking coffee, mate, and "very hot beverages"

[fragment]

Originally Posted by SR71

It is such a hard thing for an individual to have an informed opinion when it comes to figuring out how concerned one should be about various chemical contaminants. Most of us just won't have the relevant background. To an extent I consider the use of agricultural chemicals somewhat unavoidable, big ag is sort of a necessary part of sustaining big populations. It would be nice to know that at least every effort is made to limit risk by minimizing exposure to agrichemicals.

I would agree that my suspicion of glyphosate as a carcinogen is more a matter of public reputation than anything arrived at by any scientific avenue.

All of which is reasonable, and I wouldn't criticise anyone for erring on the side of caution with their personal exposure. I get a bit more concerned when people's lack of knowledge becomes a basis for public policy.

Originally Posted by JoeP

I guess the risks are of an order where more personal protection and limits to exposure for workers are needed. Just as we don't ban medical X-rays. And the discussion needs to be about forcing Monsanto to swallow their evil shit and stop suppressing objective information, rather than a binary Roundup good / Roundup bad .

By the way the IP on glyphosate ran out some time ago, so it's not just Monsanto/whoever-it-was-that-bought-Monsanto who make the stuff these days. But other manufacturers' stuff isn't called Roundup, because that's a brand name not a patent.

It's also uncommon for glyphosate to be the only ingredient in a spray mix, various extrass are usually added to affect water properties, leaf cuticle penetration and the like, some of which can also be harmful.

[fragment]

Originally Posted by JoeP

High-temperature frying

Yeah, I wonder what temperature counts as high? I mean, I usually saute onions very gently, but for Baja-style fish tacos I'll be beer battering and deep frying at a decent heat.