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Originally Posted by Demimonde
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Originally Posted by seebs
The problem is that when used outside of the strict academic model, it still carries those connotations.
So someone who's talking about the academic model, but talking to someone who hasn't studied that model, is unintentionally communicating an assertion that the "privileged" group is receiving unfair preferential treatment.
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That is 100% accurate. They are receiving unfair preferential treatment. And yes, it sucks all around. |
Hmm. I guess I have run into a connotation thing again.
I tend to view "unfair" as being to some extent "relative to what is reasonable or just". So "not being beaten up" isn't unfair treatment, even if other people are beaten up, because "not being beaten up" is the way everyone should be treated.
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I think the issue arises in that some think that they are supposed to take responsibility for having that privilege. They can't, it is beyond their control. And yes, some do want others to feel guilt or shame for it, and that is in my opinion wrong.
All that I want is for them to recognize it. That is what I think the majority of people in these discussions want. It is a shitty facet of human interaction. Denying it makes it worse. Recognizing it can help prevent more harm being done.
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Yeah. I think the word "privilege"
outside of this particular field has a connotation, especially among otherwise-egalitarian people, of a shameful thing that people have taken advantage of. The old boys network, etcetera. And then we end up with a sort of clash of connotations.
I guess that's the thing: It's good for people to recognize that not everyone can take this treatment for granted. It's not necessarily good to imply or assert that they should not be treated that way, though. It may be that the right solution is for everyone to be treated that way...
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Women can DEFINITELY be sexist. They partake in slut shaming, gas lighting, glass ceilings, internalizing the male gaze, etc. etc. etc. Which makes sense if you look at the actual research and analysis on how privilege works. The Other often accepts the hegemony presented to them.
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Ahh, I meant specifically sexist
against men. Which is a different category of thing. I guess... One of the ways of reacting to the Privilege/Other thing is to try to invert it; preserve the structure, changing only who's on top. This strikes me as just as bad.
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For me, I try to explain it to them. I tell them my perspective. I don't use "privileged" as a pejorative. I hope that they are able to recognize the phenomenon and perhaps use that broadened perspective to mitigate hurting Others.
I do not expect them to take responsibility, feel shame or guilt.
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This seems sensible.
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Academic/intellectual privilege is definitely a thing too. Thankfully, unlike most types of privilege it is not a physical one and is a mobile system. The non-intellectual can become educated at least.
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Usually, yeah.
Hmm.
See, now that I have a better grasp of where the language comes from, it seems to me that it would be useful to try to explain this more effectively to people. But I am not sure how. In particular... I feel that a lot of harm is done by over-enthusiastic attempts to shame people for their "privilege". The usual counter is of course to deny that such a thing exists or whatever...
I now theorize that, apart from the usual cognitive biases, part of the problem is that people are not using the term in the same way; people are being accused of being the default and tending to take that for granted, and are denying that they are systematically trying to oppress others.
It seems to me that it would be super useful to have a way to correct those misunderstandings.