Battered Women's Clemency Project

[viscousmemories]

After following JP's link to an inmate matchmaking site, one of the first bio's I looked at happened to be a woman who has already served almost 20 years of a natural life sentence (life without parole) for 1st degree murder. According to the information I read her crime was helping her drug addicted, abusive boyfriend hide the body of a guy he killed. She was 18 yrs. old.

As it turns out, she is one of several women serving long sentences for defending themselves against domestic abuse* that the Battered Women's Clemency Project is working to have released.

From an online petition on her behalf:

In 1987, at the age of 18, Melissa Chapman was beaten, kicked, cut, bitten, burned with cigarettes, spit and urinated on, handcuffed during beatings, raped, locked in closets and threatened with a loaded gun to the head by her drug-addicted boyfriend. She left him several times, but he dragged her back with both promises and threats of death.

To her horror, he shot and killed a man who was sitting with them in a truck during a drug deal. Terrified because he threatened to kill her as well as her parents, Melissa did as she was told and helped him hide the body to protect her own life, as well as those she loved. For this, she was convicted of 1st degree murder and handed a natural life sentence with no possibility of parole.

*The relevance in this case being that she allegedly cooperated with her boyfriend out of fear for her life.

[The Jesus Lawyer]

i know i am going to catch heat...but why didn't she just leave? how long does it take before you realize it's that bad? i actually think this works against empowering women. maybe a battered woman doesn't deserve to be sentenced for murder, but they should at least get something for using such poor judgment and life skills to get yourself in that predicament in the first place. manslaughter maybe?

go ahead and hate me...it is how i see things...though i didnt always. i used to believe in stuff like what you mentioned...then it just seemed to make less sense the more i looked. there is a lot of things i find in life that are like that, many of which fool very bright and intelligent people, who are very hard to 'fight'.

[Crumb]

Sometimes people have no where else to go.

[SharonDee]

Sometimes people have no place to go. Sometimes the abuser makes good on threats to hurt or kill people who cross him (or her). Sometimes the abuser threatens to hurt other family members if the victim doesn't comply.

What doesn't help ... NEVER helps ... is blaming the victim.

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by The Jesus Lawyer

i used to believe in stuff like what you mentioned...

Like what?

[The Jesus Lawyer]

like excusing murder, or making excuses for people instead of giving them strength. there is always somewhere else to go when your life is in danger. do you not hear your own words? do you not see how they strip power from women?


michael

[viscousmemories]

Ah, I see. No, sorry, I don't see in my own words where I tried to excuse murder or make excuses for murderers. I don't know what you're reading, but it doesn't sound at all like what I wrote.

[Gi-Ryuu]

Well, sometimes if you have a good ammount of fear... You don't see the places you could go.. Sure, there is a place you could escape to: But can you see it? Are you affraid that if you do go, that someone else may be in danger? Would you want to take that chance?

I dont think that it is about excusing the women from their crime, but about seeing it through their eyes. Yes, one woman might have been able to turn away, but another just had too many people riding on her back. People whos lifes have been threatened over her.

Would you want to be punished for trying to protect other people? Of course, it is still hard to tell if the person is lying. They might have had the chance to not do it. But, that doesnt mean you should automatically assume, one way or another.

I think that we just need to sit, and think what it would be like: So much fear instilled in you, that you cant even think correctly, then have to choose over whos life is more precious.

and as an add in: after it is over, how exactly are you supposed to give them strength, other then by comforting them?


And no, I do not see how they strip power from women.

/wobblywords

[The Jesus Lawyer]

well then we don't see it the same. i think it is learned dependence women have toward men that allows the situation in the first place. instead of breaking that hold and seeking true equality, we just condone criminal behaviour because a women did it and where is she supposed to go? how about where a man would go?

and it is because you don't see it as murder, vm.

moving on and agreeing to disagree.

bleeding hearts kill the world


michael

[Gi-Ryuu]

Oh wait, you see it different if a man did it? I dont. It is just more common for a woman to be caught in the situation. Though, if it were a man, I would still say the same. Men can be just as affraid as women, and just as dependent.

Dont you watch CSI?

[The Jesus Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Gi-Ryuu

Dont you watch CSI?

oooohhhhh....that's the problem

dependency is not cool.


michael

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by The Jesus Lawyer

and it is because you don't see it as murder, vm.

I don't see what as murder? Please quote the exact text I wrote in your next response or don't bother to respond. I'm pretty tired of trying to figure out how to justify statements that only seem to exist in your mind.

ETA: While you're at it, feel free to explain how life without parole is "empowering". You keep saying that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.

[The Jesus Lawyer]

i already stated that manslaughter would probably be a better judgment...i think treating people as equal, is empowering. you are twisting what i'm saying. if somebody stays in an absusive relationship, after being beaten to the point that murder seems the only way out, giving leniency for that stupidity is not empowering. imo.

and to your other point...i stand corrected- you said nothing. i thought your presentation of this movement was a thumbs up...

[viscousmemories]

The subject of this thread is an organization, not a movement, and they're not seeking leniency for all battered women who commit murder, they're seeking clemency for specific women who have already been tried and sentenced to long prison terms for what arguably amounts to self-defense in domestic abuse situations. (Hence the "Clemency" in their organization's title and the title of this thread).

I'd address your foolish claim that battered women stay in abusive relationships because they're "stupid" but I don't have the stomache for it. Hopefully someone else will address that particular... stupidity.

[LionsDen]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

The subject of this thread is an organization, not a movement, and they're not seeking leniency for all battered women who commit murder, they're seeking clemency for specific women who have already been tried and sentenced to long prison terms for what arguably amounts to self-defense in domestic abuse situations. (Hence the "Clemency" in their organization's title and the title of this thread).

I'd address your foolish claim that battered women stay in abusive relationships because they're "stupid" but I don't have the stomache for it. Hopefully someone else will address that particular... stupidity.

What standard ought a governor use to decide who qualifies for clemency?

That happened once in NY state a decade ago in a wife kills abusive husband case. The gov's wife was an activist for battered women.

If we use the 'necessity' defense standard, then the killer stays in prison. If the governor pardons based upon her perceived threat of eventual harm, then don't we have to visit all similar cases like abusive gang members? They have more to fear to justify a killing.

Clemency is what you hope for when all your appeals are exhausted. I think the project would have more success trying to modify the law instead.

[Annie]

One thing:

How many people choosing to participate in this discussion have
ever found her/himself victimized? (be it in domestic-violence contexts, or elsewhere)

I ask, as people fortunate enough not to, have frankly no Experience-base from which to speak.

And people who have been so unfortunate, have no real-way of explaining all the horrific details involved, in either Safely-escaping bodily, and/or *peace-intact*. How often do you give this thought?

Annie

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally Posted by The Jesus Lawyer

i used to believe in stuff like what you mentioned... like excusing murder, or making excuses for people ... you are twisting what i'm saying.

[LionsDen]

Originally Posted by Annie

One thing:

How many people choosing to participate in this discussion have
ever found her/himself victimized? (be it in domestic-violence contexts, or elsewhere)

I ask, as people fortunate enough not to, have frankly no Experience-base from which to speak.

And people who have been so unfortunate, have no real-way of explaining all the horrific details involved, in either Safely-escaping bodily, and/or *peace-intact*. How often do you give this thought?

Annie

Sounds like you have a story to tell. Been through an abusive relationship or have friends who did?

My wife is a wonderful, sensitive, caring woman active in our religious community as a registered psychiatric nurse. She helps people undergoing many stressful life crises like cancer, divorce, abuse, and medical issues as part of our church's ministry. One of our goals for our home is to convert the lower floor into a battered family shelter for emergency cases.

If I may ask, "What did you experience, and what could the faith community and private charities do to help people in similar situations?"

Thanks.

Lion

[Dingfod]

I can't say I've ever given thought to "Safely-escaping bodily, and/or *peace-intact*". I'm not even sure what they mean.

I can have empathy for the abused, more so now than before my daughter got involved with an abusive guy... and is once again right now.

[The Jesus Lawyer]

Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti

yuck it up and i'll make sure the taxis never deliver to you again.

vm- stupidity is a harsh word. the only time i think clemency should be granted, is in true self-defence, like somebody coming at you with the intent to kill and you strike back in the moment. i do not think somebody deserves clemency for murdering their husband in bed to end years of abuse. that is revenge and though understandable, it is still just as much her fault for staying so long that it got to that point.

annie- i have known more than one battered woman and after a while i began to lose sympathy for them. i mean, i felt bad they were in the situation, but it was just as much their fault for staying, imo.

you can look at what i'm saying as being cold and heartless, but caring also does a lot of bad...

whatever...i expected it, but that doesn't make what i said any less true for me. i am not simply trying to stir the pot. i just think we have got things backwards and a lot of smart people fight to keep it that way.

what do i know, i'm crazy.

michael

[Annie]

...

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by The Jesus Lawyer

vm- stupidity is a harsh word.

I agree. I think you were wrong to use it in reference to women staying in abusive relationships.

[...] the only time i think clemency should be granted, is in true self-defence, like somebody coming at you with the intent to kill and you strike back in the moment. i do not think somebody deserves clemency for murdering their husband in bed to end years of abuse.

Well I'd have to know the details of any situation before I'd judge it, but the woman I referenced in the OP didn't kill anyone, awake or asleep. She's apparently serving life without parole for helping her abusive boyfriend cover up a murder he committed.

[...]that is revenge and though understandable, it is still just as much her fault for staying so long that it got to that point.

This is just blaming the victim again. I completely disagree that it is just as much her fault. I don't think you understand the first thing about the dynamics of abusive relationships. There are many reasons, from fear to irrational optimism, that someone might stay with someone who abuses them. Dismissing it as stupidity and saying they're just as much to blame for their victimization as their assailant is just ridiculous.

[The Jesus Lawyer]

sometimes a victim mentality just makes it worse. i am not blaming them for starting it, but for staying in a relationship and holding out hope for change where there obviously is none. that is the fault of the woman. i am sorry. i actually feel this way because i see women as totally equal. you don't have to like it, but that is where i am coming at it from. you are only a victim once...to remain one takes the efforts of more than one person. and i realize there are extreme cases that could probably be excused, but i don't think this is the norm. i think it is learned inferiority that keeps these women where they are. the support should not be something that continues teaching this lesson, but an example that proves that we are all responsible for our own lives and truly equal.

this reminds me of this post i wrote, where i talked about mia farrow being on for some cause (i forget at the moment what she heads up...) and talking about women being raped by these crazed soldiers running around africa. it just suddenly struck me how nobody really gave a shit about those crazed soldiers and how they got that way. they weren't victims on tv, but in reality most were. most were conditioned to become these beasts and is that not abuse? is that not rape of the soul? many of these crazy men had seen war since they were children and many killed for the first time at a very young age, having been forced from home to become fodder. as soon as they become men, their plight is forgotten. we are all equally in a heap of shit...

but nope, women are weaker i guess.

michael

[The Jesus Lawyer]

do you believe in capital punishment, vm? because some of these men were executed and clemency says it's ok. i'm talking about the cases where the man is ambushed or murdered in his sleep. and don't think i feel pity for wife-beaters either, but that isn't the point.

and never think i don't feel sorry for these women, but they are products of society. when we gonna change society so we stop producing such sadness?

[ChuckF]

you are only a victim once...to remain one takes the efforts of more than one person.

What does this mean?

and i realize there are extreme cases that could probably be excused, but i don't think this is the norm. i think it is learned inferiority that keeps these women where they are. the support should not be something that continues teaching this lesson, but an example that proves that we are all responsible for our own lives and truly equal.

I don't think this has much to do with equality. Maybe it is 'learned inferiority' that keeps women in abusive relationships. Maybe it's the guy with the tire iron saying "Bitch, I'll kill you if you leave me."