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View Poll Results: Do you support 'animal rights'?
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Yes.
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1 |
5.26% |
No.
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8 |
42.11% |
In part, but not necessarily in full.
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13 |
68.42% |
I don't know.
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1 |
5.26% |
11-16-2008, 01:18 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Gender: Male
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Do you support 'animal rights'?
Simply put, I am curious. For the purposes of this poll, 'Yes' constitutes full agreement with the basic advocacies of 'animal rights advocates' as described in the excerpt below.
Quote:
Animal rights advocates ... agree that animals should no longer be regarded as property, or used as food, clothing, research subjects, or entertainment...[1]
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11-16-2008, 01:28 AM
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A fellow sophisticate
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cowtown, Kansas
Gender: Male
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
I don't know, yes, no, and, in part, but not necessarily in full. I answered that way because you made the results public.
I'm against animal cruelty, but also against giving animals the same status as humans. I've killed and eaten animals that I've killed, and I regularly eat animals others have killed for me. I wear shoes, belts, gloves, and jackets made out of their skins. I feel no remorse for doing any of that.
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Sleep - the most beautiful experience in life - except drink.--W.C. Fields
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11-16-2008, 01:43 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Gender: Male
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingfod
I don't know, yes, no, and, in part, but not necessarily in full. I answered that way because you made the results public
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You make your views quite public anyway in the rest of your post, but oh well. Thank you for sharing every opinion you could ever have on the matter. Should cover all the bases and all.
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11-16-2008, 02:07 AM
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A fellow sophisticate
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cowtown, Kansas
Gender: Male
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
Thank you for thanking me. At first, I wasn't going to comment further, but decided to let you have it with both barrels. Now you've inspired me to go kill some more animals, there's too many of them, some of them are bothering me right now (read: squirrels in the attic).
__________________
Sleep - the most beautiful experience in life - except drink.--W.C. Fields
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11-16-2008, 02:18 AM
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simple country microbiologist hyperchicken
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: georgia
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
I do support animal rights, but all rights aren't equal so I just focus on what I consider to be the two most basic rights: the right to be turned into a leather jacket and the right to be eaten.
godbless our animal brothers and sisters
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11-16-2008, 02:27 AM
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ninja mother
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Iowa
Gender: Female
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
That's kind of a huge grey area that you can't sum up with "animal rights".
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Don't make me break out my ninja powers..
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11-16-2008, 02:32 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashville, TN
Gender: Female
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
I support the rights of the animals I know (or know of) but the rest of them can go fuck themselves.
Like that animal who shot my sister's German Shepherd, for instance.
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11-16-2008, 02:37 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Gender: Male
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by biochemgirl
That's kind of a huge grey area that you can't sum up with "animal rights".
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The title question could be worded with more detail, but I wanted to keep it fairly simple. In my OP I go on to ask in more detail. Do you agree that animals should no longer be regarded as property, or used as food, clothing, research subjects, or entertainment?
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11-16-2008, 02:47 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Gender: Male
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
Actually, I should have just read through the What's for Dinner thread. Duh. This place is replete with human supremacist animal exploiters!
Peter Singer would not approve.
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11-16-2008, 02:49 AM
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Northier Than Thou
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: There
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
No. I'm against animal cruelty and I want to see as much as possible done to spare individual animals suffering or death as well as to preserve what species can be saved. Generally, the more we can do to minimize harm to any living creature, the happier I am. But I don't find the logic of 'rights' very useful in that regard.
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"...because everyone is ugly as sin, when you rip away their skin."
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11-16-2008, 03:14 AM
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A fellow sophisticate
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cowtown, Kansas
Gender: Male
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovereign
Actually, I should have just read through the What's for Dinner thread. Duh. This place is replete with human supremacist animal exploiters! [/URL]
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As opposed to vegetarian pedophiles.
__________________
Sleep - the most beautiful experience in life - except drink.--W.C. Fields
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11-16-2008, 03:21 AM
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
I'm an animal and I support rights for my species. However I am all for killing every cockroach in my house and without mercy. My guess is that for most predators, if they had a chance, they would kill me on the spot and would not have a care in the universe if I suffered. Some big cats might even make a sport of my suffering.
Rights as we know it are unique to our human social behavior and are pretty much species specific. People who want to extend those rights to other species watched one too many Disney films as children.
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11-16-2008, 03:25 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Gender: Male
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingfod
As opposed to vegetarian pedophiles.
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Who do you have in mind? This group may meet your description. Note, by the way, that I voted no.
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11-16-2008, 03:26 AM
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ninja mother
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Iowa
Gender: Female
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
I can't shake the feeling there's a reason behind this thread...
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Don't make me break out my ninja powers..
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11-16-2008, 03:32 AM
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A fellow sophisticate
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cowtown, Kansas
Gender: Male
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
__________________
Sleep - the most beautiful experience in life - except drink.--W.C. Fields
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11-16-2008, 03:39 AM
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I read some of your foolish scree, then just skimmed the rest.
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bay Area
Gender: Male
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
I'm against animal cruelty, am a vegetarian and generally don't wear animal products. I also eat gummy bears and am fine having friends that eat meat. Many want the happy cow to have a happy life before becoming a happy steak.
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11-16-2008, 03:48 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Gender: Male
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by biochemgirl
I can't shake the feeling there's a reason behind this thread...
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Yes. I was wondering how well-received in this milieu is the nonsense propagated by Singer, et al. So I figured I'd simply ask.
'Animal liberationists' often claim to be on the cutting edge of progress and to enjoy disproportionate support among demographics more likely than average to identify as freethinkers. From Wiki (with other sources cited):
Quote:
The movement is no longer viewed as hovering on the fringe. In the 1980s and 1990s, it was joined by a wide variety of academics and professionals, including lawyers, physicians, psychologists, veterinarians, and former vivisectionists, and is now a common subject of study in philosophy departments in Europe and North America. Animal law courses are taught in 92 out of 180 law schools in the U.S., and the movement has gained the support of senior legal scholars, including Alan Dershowitz and Laurence Tribe of Harvard Law School. Chapters of animal rights law have been created in several state bar associations, and resolutions related to animal rights are regularly proposed within the American Bar Association.
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It wasn't difficult to feel curious as to how people in this particular community feel. To be extra clear, I am not a supporter of so-called animal liberation. AR types may make a few good points here and there and get a handful of premises right. But by and large, the conclusions of those who think like me are radically different, like our overall world view. I thought it would be clear that I was mocking them with the "human-supremacist animal exploiters" line, but sarcasm doesn't always transmit clearly in this medium.
By the way, what reason did you expect?
Last edited by Wonderbread Leotard; 11-16-2008 at 04:05 AM.
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11-16-2008, 08:47 AM
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Flipper 11/11
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
Gender: Male
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by naturalist.atheist
I'm an animal and I support rights for my species. However I am all for killing every cockroach in my house and without mercy. My guess is that for most predators, if they had a chance, they would kill me on the spot and would not have a care in the universe if I suffered. Some big cats might even make a sport of my suffering.
Rights as we know it are unique to our human social behavior and are pretty much species specific. People who want to extend those rights to other species watched one too many Disney films as children.
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"It’s like killing roaches," he explains. "You have to kill them all, otherwise what’s the point?" ~ Paul Kersey, Death Wish 3.
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11-16-2008, 03:27 PM
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I said it, so I feel it, dick
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
I answered regarding animal welfare in general, rather than the specific definition.
That definition only, my answer is no.
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11-16-2008, 05:01 PM
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Servant of the Dark Lord
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Gender: Bender
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
I am against the concept of animal rights in general. I do think that being cruel to animals is wrong and we should treat the animals under our care as humanely as possible.
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11-16-2008, 05:39 PM
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the internet says I'm right
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Western U.S.
Gender: Male
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
[anecdote]I heard once an account of two separate trials. The first was for a man who stomped a poodle to death, and the room was filled with angry people wanting to see this man brought to justice. The second was for a man who killed a child, and the only people who showed up were the ones required by law to be there.[/anecdote]
Entirely superficial, of course, as there could be a number of reasons no one showed to the second trial, as well as a number of inaccuracies to the story in general, as I heard it third-hand. It is indicative, however, of an attitude I see with astounding frequency. People more concerned over what we do to other species than what we do to our own.
My answer was No. Like others here, I do not support animal cruelty, but I find it ridiculous in the extreme to say they have 'rights' in the legal sense. I agree with Ari, happy cows make happy steak.
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For Science!Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
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11-16-2008, 06:33 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Gender: Male
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
Thanks go out to each poster who has offered a real answer (regardless of how much I agree or disagree).
While I won't go so far as to thank Dingfod for dragging his pedo-obsession into this thread, that did remind me of the PNVD of Holland, with its platform for "children's rights" and "animal rights." A sample of the latter part:
Quote:
18.1 A Convention for the Protection of Animal Rights should come into force. It should be examined which rights in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights ought also to apply to animals. Examples include the right of animals not to be subjected to torture and other forms of inflicted violence and suffering. Selective breeding programmes resulting in animals that suffer all sorts of physical discomforts (from birth) should be prohibited. Stabling cows the year round should also be prohibited.
18.2 Animal testing should be subject to strict conditions.
Animal testing may only take place when it benefits public health. Alternative research methods should always be attempted. It may be possible to eventually prohibit all animal testing.
18.3 Meat and fish consumption by people will be prohibited.
The PNVD opposed murder, whether it involves human beings or animals. Breeding minks and other animals for their fur will therefore be prohibited. Since a prohibition on meat and fish consumption will have a strong impact on people working in this industry, the government should provide financial compensation for them allowing them to transform their business so it no longer involves killing animals. This ban will have to be enforced gradually and preferably in a European context in order to prevent criminal trade.
18.4 Recreational fishing should be banned.
The freedom of fish wins out over the freedom of recreational fishermen. Fish cannot consent to biting a hook.
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Notice how, for all their talk of freethinking (their motto is even sapere aude, which Kant called the motto of the Enlightenment IIRC), they come off as awfully dogmatic.
There are no "unalienable Rights" granted by some supernatural "Creator." There are no "natural rights." There are legal rights recognized and/or enforced by states. And why should rights be universalized? Why should they be extended to non-human animal species whose members clearly do not care for the concept themselves? Why should they even be granted to all humans?
Last edited by Wonderbread Leotard; 11-16-2008 at 06:57 PM.
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11-16-2008, 07:22 PM
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simple country microbiologist hyperchicken
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: georgia
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
Um, without an idea of natural rights there are no nuremberg trials.
I for one like prosecuting war crimes/crimes against humanity.
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11-16-2008, 07:50 PM
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puzzler
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
Dawkins makes an interesting argument that the reason we don't give animals rights is that we can't interbreed with them. He imagines a world in which all the 'missing links' between man and other primates are still present. In such a world there would be no clear-cut demarcation line between man and (say) chimpanzees, and it would be very difficult to decide where (if anywhere) human rights no longer applied.
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11-17-2008, 12:40 AM
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Not as smart as Adam
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Queensland
Gender: Male
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Re: Do you support 'animal rights'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari
I'm against animal cruelty, am a vegetarian and generally don't wear animal products. I also eat gummy bears and am fine having friends that eat meat. Many want the happy cow to have a happy life before becoming a happy steak.
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This. I believe that an animal does the right to be free from pain and suffering. I believe that the way animals are processed for food is often barbaric and does cause needless pain and suffering. I favour free range animals and quick and effective ways of killing them for further processing. The cost of meat may go up, but so what. The animals will be better off and as bey mentioned stress free steak tastes way better than stressed meat.
Watch Earthlings. It may change some of your perspectives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovereign
To be extra clear, I am not a supporter of so-called animal liberation. AR types may make a few good points here and there and get a handful of premises right. But by and large, the conclusions of those who think like me are radically different, like our overall world view. I thought it would be clear that I was mocking them with the "human-supremacist animal exploiters" line, but sarcasm doesn't always transmit clearly in this medium.
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Yes, but you are also against bimbo rights. You're a bit selfish and unempathetic aren't you?
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