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  #601  
Old 01-11-2010, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: Ethics of Killing Animals

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That sounds like what Gilbert Ryle called a "category error" to me. QM is about physics. Ethics is about behaviour/psychology.
That's the whole point though. If QM is the very basis of reality, how can this not be what ethics are all about? You have to postulate something prior to QM, where ethics already exist, in their full scope and totality, in order to make the distinction. Otherwise you are saying there's no basis for it, other than random noise.

Ethics are a construct of human consciousness
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  #602  
Old 01-12-2010, 02:29 AM
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Default Re: Ethics of Killing Animals

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Author Jonathan Safran Foer discusses book "Eating Animals."
It's good that Foer points out how meat in the US is produced but the problem is not just meat. Almost all foodstuffs are more or less manufactured. Both plants and animals.
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  #603  
Old 01-12-2010, 03:46 AM
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Default Re: Ethics of Killing Animals

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Originally Posted by Iacchus View Post
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That sounds like what Gilbert Ryle called a "category error" to me. QM is about physics. Ethics is about behaviour/psychology.
That's the whole point though. If QM is the very basis of reality, how can this not be what ethics are all about? You have to postulate something prior to QM, where ethics already exist, in their full scope and totality, in order to make the distinction. Otherwise you are saying there's no basis for it, other than random noise.

Ethics are a construct of human consciousness
Provided of course we can compartmentalize such things in our mind and say this is as far as it goes. This is all you are really saying here. What do you attribute human consciousness to, other than the neuro-firings in the brain? That in itself is not a complete answer, because it only provides the means by which information (both internal and external) is processed, and is not the information itself. Neither does it constitute that (a.k.a., "the thinker") which reflects upon the information. In other words how does matter, which is simply ascribed to a process that is dictated and goes about its own thing, become self-aware?

No so, unless that propensity for self-awareness existed beforehand.
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Last edited by Iacchus; 01-12-2010 at 03:57 AM.
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  #604  
Old 04-22-2010, 01:18 PM
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Default Re: Ethics of Killing Animals

Thanks for linking/bumping this thread, vm. I never read it as carefully as I meant to the first time around.

I had not realized what a delicate snowflake Pyrrho is. Also, there are some v. interesting points about the ethics of killing animals.

FWIW, I tend to think there is something a bit "off" about hunting as well, notwithstanding lisarea's perfectly compelling argument about the greater self-honesty in slaughtering one's own meat than in passively depending on the industrial slaughterhouse system. Here's a consideration: unless you hunt for all or most of your meat -- which vanishingly few people do in my experience -- then you probably support the industrialized inhumane system anyhow. I know a lot of hunters, and my perception is that none of them hunt simply for the meat; they hunt for the camaraderie, for the beer, for the weekend away, and for the frisson of the kill. And I think that killing a large, clever mammal is an unwholesome means to those particular ends; and that the last of those ends is itself an unhealthy one to savour. But my reasoning is confident and settled on none of these issues, I confess.
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  #605  
Old 04-24-2010, 03:21 AM
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Default Re: Ethics of Killing Animals

I want a steak!
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  #606  
Old 04-24-2010, 06:49 AM
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Default Re: Ethics of Killing Animals

Very good contribution there MOT.

Welcome to :ff:
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  #607  
Old 04-24-2010, 08:48 AM
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Default Re: Ethics of Killing Animals

I like them already.
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  #608  
Old 04-24-2010, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: Ethics of Killing Animals

Yes, you would.
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  #609  
Old 04-25-2010, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: Ethics of Killing Animals

How is the vegeterianism going, vm?

I've taken another crack at it - excepting the prawns in my freezer, and I am still pondering the ethics of buying more. So far I'm hating the vegetarian canteen food. I may give up again soon. :(
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  #610  
Old 04-25-2010, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: Ethics of Killing Animals

I gave up before I started. :braces:

Explanation here.
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  #611  
Old 04-25-2010, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: Ethics of Killing Animals

Oh bleh, I misremembered.

Well, how is that going? :P

Edit: Or I could learn to read and follow the link...
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  #612  
Old 04-25-2010, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: Ethics of Killing Animals

Not knowing if other animals have a sense of being. The capacity to imagine itself as existing would probably create empathy. I do not know if other animals give itself an identity. That is to say that they do not think of themselves.
The human animal exists only because of this thing that senses life. If not for this thing the human animal would exist selfless as just another cow or turkey. It would kill with out qualms. It would see nothing wrong or good in killing. The human animal would then kill or be killed in this cycle of existence.
The selfless human animal would then kill for survival. Survival of it's physical self not its identity self. Trophy hunter kill for the verification of their identity self.
So as I see, it is not nececcsary to kill animals for survival. Not necessay for humans but nature it is done as a matter of course because it is not a sin nor is it immoral.
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